Are we defending Islam?

[Benighted]

lol dude that's the part they are getting angry on xDD You sound like you don't believe in what everything Islam and Quran teaches and want to confirm those things that's the difference. We are muslims because we accepted Islam is the correct religion. Doubting on it doesn't help. That aside the whole point was to believe in something you can't see or comprehend so why do u need a secondary source to confirm if it says the truth or not?

Yes, I understand where you and them are coming from. But he said that pre-Islamic history is "well-documented". He was already going beyond the Quran to appear more credible. Faith is alright, but you can't call it a fact. It's misleading.

 

[killerdons]

Well-documented? Not in the least. There is very little information available about pre-Islamic Arabia apart from Islamic sources. Burial of girls is probably a myth perpetuated by Islam. Arabs would have gone extinct if burying of girls was as common is purported to be by apologists. Then again, you take all your history lessons from the Quran, so you probably do not need a second source to feel confident in its truth.

Besides, Islam brought with it its own culture of loot, rape, torture and war. So whether it actually improved the quality of life is very debatable.

Confirmation bias is apparent from your statements. Only the sources that confirms your beliefs and ideologies is acceptable. Thus creating contradictions in the points that you mentioned. What's the source of the last statement you have made? Blabbering out facts from your mind on the go, will only prove your stupidity.

They know their scriptures well, I assure you. I'm not talking about Mullahs beating madrassah children with sticks. Problem is, Islam is divided into many versions today, and you probably only consider one from your own sects and ones you agree with "authentic". Anyone who goes against your views must necessarily be misguided and uneducated. If only!

Good bring in sects now, when everything else fails. The argument is not about sects, but the authenticity of the scholars that you keep talking about. I am actually curious. Give me some name. Or is it one of the other facts that you made up on the go.

 

[NaNoW]

The biggest problem is that there is no one single Muslim and there is no one single Islam. Thus any and all arguments fall absolutely flat.

The only thing I can say in this though (in my opinion, dont kill me pls):

The religion Islam, as we know it today, is not Holy Phophet (pbuh)'s Islam or Allah's Islam.
It is a product of trusting in memory of a few men who compiled books. If you believe in these books you belong of this sect, if you believe in those books then you belong to that sect, blah blah-We are bound by these books not Islam.
We see everything in light of those books and if we ask too many questions, suddenly we see these awesome fatwas/threats. The insecurity of of our religious patrons is mindblowing (..literally)
Religion is run like a business and a mafia. It shouldnt have been like this.
How can a person, who has not passed inter, possesses no research knowledge, doesnt even truly speak the language, has never read the works of others be expected to explain Quran or Islam.
It is naive of anyone to expect such a thing. Its like asking a person in 2nd class to explain quantum mechanics and then trusting in him.

Also, how can any country/organisation who gains everything they have from exploiting religion, be serious about questioning the hardline approach. Imagine if you asked Coke to research and explain you Sugar. There is no reason for them to talk about or research anything that will hurt their business.


We have, in my opinion, unfortunately been raised in an environment of "asking difficult questions = kafir".
We have been treated like sheeps.

While we argue, fight over, read about and critically analyse even PS4 vs Xbox, we spend literally 0 seconds to do the same to religion.
In my mind Islam came to open minds and start an age of asking hard questions. We live in this false sense of comfort and security that we are correct and of
never questioning those "holy men" who have made it their self imposed job to explain.

So...imo people (call them Liberal if you want to) who say Islam is inherently violent, they know nothing about it. Why? because what is Islam ? Their isn't one Islam. There are a bunch of sects and each person believes in something different.
And those who say "Islam is the best religion", they know nothing about it. Why? Because What is Islam? Have you questioned other sects or religions and looked deeply into the text and history of what the religions is from a non biased point of view?

So the best answer is that we are stuck in this state of limbo...You can see it in our govt aswell..Are we following Sharia or Democracy or DemoAria or Sharicracy
..and the sad state of thing is I dont know how will we ever get out of it nor do I see anyone Really doing anything about it.

Blabbering out facts from your mind on the go, will only prove your stupidity.

This was uncalled for in my opinion..mutual respect should always be maintained...disagreement doesn't mean you call them stupid..

 

[EternalBlizzard]

Blizzard: We can make a lot of observations about us Muslims that Westerners can not. Living in Pakistan gives us that advantage. Being part of the population, it doesn't take much to notice general trends in the beliefs of the people you are living with. I personally know Taliban and Qadri supporters from my own university. That's how I know they are Muslims. These groups have sympathizers in every demographic in our country, in different numbers. If educated muslims, who have never been to a mardassah can give these militants their vote of confidence, isn't it reasonable to suppose that the actual terrorists are Muslims as well of a similar mentality but greater aggression? I think if you apply Occam's razor, the likelihood of the terrorists being real Muslims is far better than the frame-hypothesis.

And now I'm out of here. Peace, everybody.

Hey no backing out now lemme expand the world lines as much as i can :s

Okay i admit i never knew there were muslim taliban supporters which leads to the thought that

"If educated muslims, who have never been to a mardassah can give these militants their vote of confidence, isn't it reasonable to suppose that the actual terrorists are Muslims as well of a similar mentality but greater aggression?"

while this may sound somewhat believable and an agreeable statement but in real, things are quite different between educated Muslims giving vote of confidence and the so called Muslim terrorists, by such a great length that you can't call that an "increase in aggression of that mentality". Those Muslims might give their vote of confidence but believe me they aren't the type to kill people for no reason. Giving a vote of confidence to an act and performing an act are different. Performing that act requires an entirely different thing to be present in you. Believe me when i say i think what Qadri did "wasn't wrong". But it wasn't right either when u see it in the light of today's laws etc. This matter is complicated i admit. Neverthless i don't think of that as a wrong act. This doesn't mean i'll kill anyone who insults the Holy Prophet S.A.W.W because i know i don't have what it takes to do that.

This and plus all those other news i randomly hear about America or any other country funding these organizations leads me to believe that Islam is being targeted by non-muslims disguising themselves as Muslims. Why is it possible and so easy to do so? That is because generally people and especially non-muslims have the idea that saying Allahu Akbar, having Darhi and wearing shalwar above ankles means being a Muslim while these things don't have anything to do with being a Muslim. People don't have this thought regarding other religions.

 

[Benighted]

Confirmation bias is apparent from your statements. Only the sources that confirms your beliefs and ideologies is acceptable. Thus creating contradictions in the points that you mentioned. What's the source of the last statement you have made? Blabbering out facts from your mind on the go, will only prove your stupidity.

I am biased for asking alternative sources to corroborate your religion's teaching? If turning to evidence rather than accepting things on blind faith is confirmation bias, then yeah, you could say I am pretty biased.

The source of the last statement I have made is your very own Quran and Hadiths. Sahih Bukhari 5:59:459. Sahih Muslim 8:3432. Sahih Bukhari 4:52:256. And what they did to the tribe of Qurayza where even male children weren't spared.

I have lost most of the treasure I had. Wish I still had it.

You could do without the ad-hominems, by the way.

 

[Leon]

[MENTION=12458]Benighted[/MENTION] If you want to prove your point, You can do so in shorter posts. I didnt even read after 1-3 top lines, honestly.
Ok there are more "Muslim terrorists". But tell me one thing. Why are the casualties these " muslim" terrorists cause, 90% of all the time victims are Muslims only? Why are they killing their own numbers if the motto is actually to kill all non Muslims in the name of God.(THIS ISNT ISLAM IN ANY WAY)
And about most of the blame going to Muslims, Yeah as if you are even blaming any other entity than Muslims for terrorism i would have considered that.
There are good and bad people everywhere. Same is the case with Muslims. The terrorism ISIS is doing in the name of Islam shouldnt be blamed on all the Muslims.
There are still Muslims like me, like you(I dont know if you are one or not) and countless others who would actually think a thousand times before harming others.


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[mafiadog]

I am biased for asking alternative sources to corroborate your religion's teaching? If turning to evidence rather than accepting things on blind faith is confirmation bias, then yeah, you could say I am pretty biased.

The source of the last statement I have made is your very own Quran and Hadiths. Sahih Bukhari 5:59:459. Sahih Muslim 8:3432. Sahih Bukhari 4:52:256. And what they did to the tribe of Qurayza where even male children weren't spared.

I have lost most of the treasure I had. Wish I still had it.

You could do without the ad-hominems, by the way.

What they did to banu quraiza was a ruling applied to them according to their own scriptures. Stop adding your words in between as its a consensus amongst all scholars (Muslims non Muslims alike) that all men were killed and women / children were enslaved. You broke the oath , you chose an arbitrator of your choice and that arbitrator judged you according to your own book/rules.

you seem to call these your treasures ? Quoting random incidents ? What is Sahih Bukhari 5:59:459 etc ? Lol bukhari or other ahadeeth are compiled in volumes just for reference 5-3-4 or any number doesn't mean anything , either quote hadith's or narrations , numbers above what you mentioned differ in different prints.

I think when you had those treasures we must've debated a lot back then. Our religion is supreme , exists for more than 1000 years , we are a nation who believe in one God. We have survived worst times than these , we have lived during hajaj bin yosaf , we have survived the black plague , we were butchered by the Mongols , we have fought wars with super powers yet each time we come out more powerful than before. Groups like isis al queda have existed throughout our history , allegations accusations have been raised before too , the kuffar have always created hatred amongst us but everything fails. We might seem divided and extreme but we are one and many. We always come over our failures , wrongs and unite as have been proven throughout history. You think during the crusades the word was not famous in Europe of our alleged intolerance ? Brutality ? Barbarism ? Alleged ! History proves otherwise.

We are not apologetic Muslims , amongst us are wrongs , extremes , moderate. You push us we push you back , we have a mission and a purpose. To us the world is like Karl Marx , where to him proletariats live in false consciousness to us world lives with false idols. Marx believes if whole world is communist , then there will be peace . democrats believe if the whole world has democracy there will be peace thus the global fight against dictatorship , boycotts of nondemocratic regimes etc. We Muslims also believe that if the whole world is Muslim , only then the world will be at peace.

Before that everything is false , lies and war. When communism fights , theres a reason , when regimes are overthrown , a reason , so when Islam fights , we have a purpose. No difference in any of the above ideologies. There is no concept of lifetime truce in Islam , we will continue fighting as we have throughout the history. So sorry to blow your bubble of using silly arguments against us , its like all your life you were calling spade , a spade and we admit you were right. Now what ? A cookie ? Your hatred is apparent for us and so why should we shy away from hating you ?


Sent from my 1+X

 

[mafiadog]

the death penalty is only for beleivers as there is even a reference of a non believer insulting the Prophet(PBUH) and he told his companions to spare him.


Sent From my Xperia Z2 D6503

Bhai apne farkhana Noor Muhammad o levels me parhi thi usme yehi likha he. Magar koi bhi history ki kitaab kholay to saaf zahir hojayega ke fatah Makkah me kin ki maafi nahi howi this and they were brought to sword including women. Islam has no place for those who insult Allah or his prophet saw. There is no forgiveness , and thus the existence of blasphemy law in our country.


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[killerdons]

I am biased for asking alternative sources to corroborate your religion's teaching? If turning to evidence rather than accepting things on blind faith is confirmation bias, then yeah, you could say I am pretty biased.

The source of the last statement I have made is your very own Quran and Hadiths. Sahih Bukhari 5:59:459. Sahih Muslim 8:3432. Sahih Bukhari 4:52:256. And what they did to the tribe of Qurayza where even male children weren't spared.

There is very little information available about pre-Islamic Arabia apart from Islamic sources. Burial of girls is probably a myth perpetuated by Islam

I have been saying this from the very beginning, there are contradictions in your statements.

@NaNoW

I understand your point. But the thing is, if you have a question about rockets science, will you go to a barber? Will you, who have no knowledge of engineering, try to solve it your self? Then, why don't we all take these questions, that you think are hard, to ones who are qualified to answer them? That is the root of the problem, everyone is a Mufti, everyone has his own opinion of Islam. If I have a problem with PG, I will contact the MOD of this forum, or go to Pakwheels?

I am not pointing my finger towards you, just speaking generally here. There are authentic, qualified scholars, who will be happy to answer your questions, without killing you.

 

[Leon]

Bhai apne farkhana Noor Muhammad o levels me parhi thi usme yehi likha he. Magar koi bhi history ki kitaab kholay to saaf zahir hojayega ke fatah Makkah me kin ki maafi nahi howi this and they were brought to sword including women. Islam has no place for those who insult Allah or his prophet saw. There is no forgiveness , and thus the existence of blasphemy law in our country.


Sent from my 1+X

Can you quote a hadith(not zaeef) or verse in which it is directly ordered to kill? Directly as in not interpreted.

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[mafiadog]

Can you quote a hadith(not zaeef) or verse in which it is directly ordered to kill? Directly as in not interpreted.

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To kill who ? The blasphemers? You can look up in many hadith's found in bukhari or Muslim considered sound. I need not to quote. Unless you can quote me directly where it says not to kill above ?



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[deltoid61]

bhai jaan visit some senior ulemas from india or Pakistan or Arab they will clear everything such threads should not be discussed here in gaming communities

 

[TrueCoolGuy]

There are so many things that I want to say but I will refrain from doing so because I don't want whatever reasonable discussion that's being had here by the select few willing to talk with civility to be ruined by a thread lock. I also don't want it to get locked because some people are taking this discussion too seriously. With people posting war monologues and calls to the mods to be at the ready to gas this thread at the mere hint of any transgression against Islam.

As a suggestion, if anyone feels that they can't take what's being said in this thread then don't visit it. There is no reason to cripple everyone else's discussion if you feel like what's being said is "not right". A proper discussion can't be had under these circumstances, so don't get involved just to enforce these circumstances. Keeping the discussion mature is important but it means nothing if the participants are unwilling to be mature themselves and abstain.

There are specific posts I would address but again, I don't want to instigate any lock down of the thread. Discuss or don't, your choice.

You could do without the ad-hominems, by the way.

That was an insult, not an ad-hominem. Put away the big words, Ben. You're doing fine without them.

 

[Leon]

To kill who ? The blasphemers? You can look up in many hadith's found in bukhari or Muslim considered sound. I need not to quote. Unless you can quote me directly where it says not to kill above ?



Sent from my 1+X

Yeah but in this era no Muslim is pious enough to decide and punish another human being all by himself. Its the job of the authorities. I wont go into details as i feel this is a really sensitive topic.

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[HAMMER of THOR]

Well everyone has their own beliefs and what not, we cannot say which version or sect of islam is authentic. I only follow a more tolerant "salafi" style path, though i am against sects and call myself a muslim only. The problem is the media propaganda in the west and the subsequent reaction to that. It is almost a fact that if you repeat something too many times in the ears of a youth, he will start to believe it. And talking to these people is very hard as they do not understand islam and are very rude to talk to. The gist of it all is that they look at islam and see the final chapter and do not realize the 10 chapters before it and make an astoundingly ignorant judgement, which their ego will never realize. They would talk of the punishments and rules without knowing anything about the basics of islam. The current western impression of islam(and the self righteous liberal fools of our own society) is due to this....

 

[NaNoW]

I am not pointing my finger towards you, just speaking generally here. There are authentic, qualified scholars, who will be happy to answer your questions, without killing you.

Two things. 1) There is no one set rule of qualification. What maybe a qualified scholar to you, might not be to me, because of sects or "leanings" . This is partly what I meant with "bound by books". How many times have you seen a "certified" Theologist who has knowledge of Sunni, Shia Allama, Barelvi, etc sects and other religions and can present different point of views on one topic. Is this type of degree taught in Islamic countries ? Nope. Unfortunately, It is mostly taught in Oxbridge or Ivy League unis.

Let me give you an example; I wanted a degree in microtechnology, thus I read courses such as microbiology, microelectronics, sensors, electromagnetics , etc..and after studying all these, I had to decided on my electives and then present my research paper to 3 professors from different branches. I had to write citations, quotes, read and reference 100s of research papers. Contradicting views and hard penetrating questions were encouraged to, with the correct reasoning, analysis and experimentation to back up my claims.

Now be honest. How many of our qualified molvis have done such a thing to warrant a status that they hold? I know there might be some really knowledgeable people
but they are only knowledgeable in their own sect and view everything they talk about from a predefined perspective of that they are right and everyone else is wrong,
thus they are afraid of you getting knowledge from other point of views aswell. So science, technology, media, other sects, other religions, anything that is not them is wronge.

This is in times of Nazi Germany :

Niemöller is perhaps best remembered for the quotation:First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Socialist.
Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Trade Unionist.
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.

Please allow me to change this a little bit to

First they came for the non-muslims, and I did not speak out—Because I was not a non muslim.
Then they came for the Muslim minorities, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Muslim minority.
Then they came for the liberals, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a liberal.
Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me

This is what eventually led to APS Peshawar.
This is the rabbit hole we are all going down in.


If I make a machine which once I feed answers FAQs from different sects and religions, that machine would easily outperform any molvi/mufti.
How is this acceptable?

This is the state of things because asking questions has been always frowned upon in Islam by this mafia (because they dont have answers themselves).
Due to this there has been no new development, old doctrine has been blindly followed and a staunch hardline and primitive approach has led to people
blowing themselves up in the name of religion of peace.
Now researching and properly presenting new ideas doesnt mean you become a kafir or are "destroying our religion".

2 ) Let me write another example, why this way of learning isnt right.
If you move something off center even 1 degree at origin, as you go further down the line that deviation becomes bigger and bigger. I believe that due to this hardline approach, for past 1400 or so years, our religion has deviated from the origin significantly.
This could have be avoided if our preachers thought about correcting themselves and their peers and spoken out loud.
It would've advanced our religion by keeping it close to the principle and core of our religion.
It allows us to expand our understanding of our religion, it wouldve been better for the religion of Islam.

We shouldve not been still stuck between answering most basic of questions.
We cant even solve why are there so many sects with huge followings.

This is why I dont blame Islam, because we have been on the never-correcting trajectory for so long, that we dont know what Islam is.

Man I have always liked you but this is something I think I should point out :

Well everyone has their own beliefs and what not, we cannot say which version or sect of islam is authentic.

And who is to blame for that ? I blame the so called "teachers"

I only follow a more tolerant "salafi" style path, though i am against sects and call myself a muslim only.

That is a contradiction in itself. What led you down this path? Did you ask all your questions to aalims of hanafis sunnis, shias, barelvis, liberal sunnis, even nonmuslims, etc?

Do an experiment.
Take a question. Any decent question. And go talk to ALL the Aalims of every major sect (5 or 6 in Pakistan) and (if you can find one)qualified theologist aswell..and ask them for concrete proof for what they say. Ask them to show you in the book and question them on the lineage of the person who narrated what they said. And just observe what they have to say.

And talking to these people is very hard as they do not understand islam and are very rude to talk to. The gist of it all is that they look at islam and see the final chapter and do not realize the 10 chapters before it and make an astoundingly ignorant judgement, which their ego will never realize. They would talk of the punishments and rules without knowing anything about the basics of islam.

Is this not EXACTLY what liberals or minority muslims would say about other sects? Who is to blame for this confusion?


I can explain this point forever..I have said all I wanted to say.
Please take care of yourself.

 

[Gizmo]

There are so many things that I want to say but I will refrain from doing so because I don't want whatever reasonable discussion that's being had here by the select few willing to talk with civility to be ruined by a thread lock. I also don't want it to get locked because some people are taking this discussion too seriously. With people posting war monologues and calls to the mods to be at the ready to gas this thread at the mere hint of any transgression against Islam.

As a suggestion, if anyone feels that they can't take what's being said in this thread then don't visit it. There is no reason to cripple everyone else's discussion if you feel like what's being said is "not right". A proper discussion can't be had under these circumstances, so don't get involved just to enforce these circumstances. Keeping the discussion mature is important but it means nothing if the participants are unwilling to be mature themselves and abstain.

There are specific posts I would address but again, I don't want to instigate any lock down of the thread. Discuss or don't, your choice.

This basically. If you can't handle what's being discussed in the thread and it offends you, then don't bother showing up. Otherwise, let's have a good, rational discussion.

 

[mafiadog]

There are so many things that I want to say but I will refrain from doing so because I don't want whatever reasonable discussion that's being had here by the select few willing to talk with civility to be ruined by a thread lock. I also don't want it to get locked because some people are taking this discussion too seriously. With people posting war monologues and calls to the mods to be at the ready to gas this thread at the mere hint of any transgression against Islam.

As a suggestion, if anyone feels that they can't take what's being said in this thread then don't visit it. There is no reason to cripple everyone else's discussion if you feel like what's being said is "not right". A proper discussion can't be had under these circumstances, so don't get involved just to enforce these circumstances. Keeping the discussion mature is important but it means nothing if the participants are unwilling to be mature themselves and abstain.

There are specific posts I would address but again, I don't want to instigate any lock down of the thread. Discuss or don't, your choice.



That was an insult, not an ad-hominem. Put away the big words, Ben. You're doing fine without them.

I agree to your post. Feel free to discuss anything , but one particular member went a step ahead deliberately to insult Islam and promote hatred. Keep the discussions at bay within the rules , claiming having treasures against Islam , spewing venom by twisting words will do no one any good. There should be no reference to Quran or hadiths , as to respect everyone's believes. Or agar kisi ko itna hi shok he to feel free to pm me .

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[AbbY]

I agree to your post. Feel free to discuss anything , but one particular member went a step ahead deliberately to insult Islam and promote hatred. Keep the discussions at bay within the rules , claiming having treasures against Islam , spewing venom by twisting words will do no one any good. There should be no reference to Quran or hadiths , as to respect everyone's believes. Or agar kisi ko itna hi shok he to feel free to pm me .

Sent from my 1+X

And if you notice, the post is no longer there. In heated arguments sometimes people say things they don't necessarily mean, or their choice of words presents it in a different manner.

The moderators are here to correct that and warn/ban accordingly.

Remember, two wrongs NEVER make a right.

 

[HAMMER of THOR]

And who is to blame for that ? I blame the so called "teachers"

Who is to blame? you understand fitna? i don't blame the teachers, i blame the individual who does not strive to understand islam... read quran and hadith and make up your own mind. Who told you to follow the "teachers"? who are they anyway? have you actually talked to a scholar in detail? they will school the hell out of you and you will then realize that you never actually talked to a real "teacher". People just carry on doing what their parents teach them and get stuck in that cycle of ignorance as their egos will them blind to everything else. Same thing the mushriks did or do, even after seeing some truth.

That is a contradiction in itself. What led you down this path? Did you ask all your questions to aalims of hanafis sunnis, shias, barelvis, liberal sunnis, even nonmuslims, etc?

It is a contradiction if you do not understand what i mean. The tolerant part comes from myself, even though i am not really that tolerant as i do not like suffering ignorant fools. Sects are clearly forbidden in islam and i didn't want to post anything against it so i vaguely said that everyone has their own opinion. Anyone who is logical then strive to go to the basics and understand islam at the source... Quran and hadith. They will then find that all these stupid sects have NO basis in islam. I follow logic which says that islam ended when our prophet pbuh died. I will study the quran and the authentic hadith and i will follow the example of the sahabah r.a. That is logic and nothing else and as an engineer i strive for that. You are pretty confused, while i am not. I will never follow shias, because their sect is actually political and far away from anything islam says. Barelvis are mostly grave worshippers and logic dictates otherwise, and it is not like these people are not proven wrong. These people are proven wrong many times but their is that fact also known as "fitna" where one turns a blind eye to overall wisdom and take one or two rare instances to legalize things that are illegal. It all comes out of loyalty to the ancestors without trying to open an eye yourself. My ancesters are barelvis, and i "chose" to step aside from that as it does not make sense and has no logic. Islam is logical and has a wisdom to it, without that you know nothing. (i am talking with intolerance to give you an example of how not to talk even though what i said, i believe)

Do an experiment.
Take a question. Any decent question. And go talk to ALL the Aalims of every major sect (5 or 6 in Pakistan) and (if you can find one)qualified theologist aswell..and ask them for concrete proof for what they say. Ask them to show you in the book and question them on the lineage of the person who narrated what they said. And just observe what they have to say.


Is this not EXACTLY what liberals or minority muslims would say about other sects? Who is to blame for this confusion?


I can explain this point forever..I have said all I wanted to say.
Please take care of yourself.

You make more sense here, try making more sense for everyone else's sake so that arguments do not get fueled without any reason... i was merely talking about the punishements of islam which deter many stupid desi liberals and non muslims and you pulled me into an argument which i was not a part of. Coming to your example... Allahs says that quran is easy for everyone to understand. Study it first and gain the knowledge YOURSELF. See i will never go to all the sects like i am confused. I am not confused and i have seen a logical path which is to follow the Quran and hadith... and not making your sects on political and historical happenings. Ideology comes from those two sources and to be more succinct, it comes from quran only as hadith and sunnah is only the explanation of it. We do not read quran and go to the barelvi or shia or deobandi scholars.. why? who in the right mind would do that? it is illogical... why not study the quran first and gain some knowledge yourself. You will understand that if you do the five pillars of islam correctly then you are basically done. In this day and age of extreme worldly obsession, trying to intentinally confuse yourself looks like a rant allowing one to commit some sins he wants because he is not sure of a few simple things. The difference of opinion in these sects, which can be debated about is mostly historical and political. Sects are HARAM, don't look for them... follow the Quran and hadith/sunnah so that you do not confuse yourself by fitna. Right now i will be content with any sect or person who does not commit shirk on a regular basis as even the most authentic "sects" would be doing it. Stay away from sects and do the basics right... what else is their in islam? these sects intentionally make islam hard which is why they are fitna...