Career Counseling

[Syavash]

8-9k starting with nill experience and 13-16k with 2-3 years of experience. Goes for UAE as well. However due to ecnomic problems its easier to find job in Saudi then in Bahrain or Dubai. Saudi is actually witnessing economic boom specially in Jeddah and Riyadh. Lots of jobs there.



All those people studying engineering please don't get upset. I have just stated the fact and what i have seen. I have worked in dubai, bahrain and saudi which makes most of the gulf in past 3 years. You people i guess have not even left your university yet. So please don't get upset because aaj ya jkal you have to face the reality.

Its simply give and take. You guys chose a low paying field out of passion and interest. Good enough you are satisfied. Laikin jab new Audi ya BMW purchase karni hogi toh shayed passion thanda par jayega aap logon ka.

I have simply stated what i have seen. App log jab audi khareeney k qabil hoge tab apki jawani zaya ho chuki hogi. :lol: :lol:

For me its both about passion and money. My dad wanted to be to do something in medical but i chose this field on my own because i liked it and also it was high paying with lots of opportunities. I was admitted ot Shiekh Zayed Uni in UAE for MBBA. I did my A level with medical and biology. I left UAE (Lived there for 20years) and came to Pakistan to peruse my career and not to put extra burden on my dad.

At 24 i have become self sufficient. The last time i took pocket money from my dad was 7 years back. During my ACCA studies i was giving tutions to Inter and B.com and earning my own money. Now during articles im being paid 12k and i maintain my own car and daily expenses. Everything i buy from my rig to my clothes to shoes is my own money. And as my articles is about to end 50k job offers are waiting for me. This is how i wanted to see myself. I did not want to be a cripple living on my dad's money. This very field has allowed me to do so. My own cousins who are even elder than me are still doing their degrees in unis and living on packet money. I have started my next international qualification which will cost me around 1.5lac rs and i will pay it from my own pocket. the money i saved during my mid east trip. This is how i planned to live my life when i was 18. Now my the time i am 30 i see myself as manager in finance or audit department of a prestegious company. I am working hard for it by going for my next qualification and not getting seduced by job offers during my training period. Still sticking to 12k till 2011 and a big jump tp UAE after that.

The reason to tell you guys all this is to make all those people at their 18 realize the importance of hard work and planning. Making the right decision is they key to good life.


So kindly dont get upset. While being in the same age group i have seen more life and interacted with more people so i talk from experience. Good bye.

Hmm thanks for that advice

Tell me something:

This is how I plan to do my studies. This November I will finish my O levels.

After that I plan on doing A levels in BS, Economics, Accounts and some other subject as well (not sure which one :|)

After A levels, this is what some people suggested I should do:-

1) For the next 4 years, do ACCA and do BBA alongside it (since they say its quite easy after A levels).

2) At the end of 4 years when my ACCA and BBA is finished, I should do MBA for 2 years and then leave pakistan for probably the UK to do ICAEW (International Chartered Accountants of England and Wales, highest degree in accountancy in the UK). (there I can probably get a job as well (part time )

What do you think?

Btw I'm 17 now, if that matters?

 

[hasanJ]

Engineering has a much higher struggling period where u learn ur trade out in the field
it also depends on wht kind of degree u have

i got relative who passed with First Merit from GIKI in Electronics Engg and hes working for Siemens rite here in Pakistan they started him with 40k + benefits thts a hell lot for plain BE

last year a good friend of mine who also coached me in Inter graduated with Mechanical Engineering
Dawlance offered their batch's top 20 merit holders a 35k Starting Salary just plain BE

my close friend who is also my class fellow has 3 elder brothers the eldest did Electrical with very high merit and after 2 years of job rite here in Pakistan hes earning close to 75k Rs his 2nd Eldest went to Saudia with degree in Civil Engineering and starting out with a hefty salary
both these guys worked hard and were high in merit

the 3rd eldest culdnt get a decent job he graduated last year in Civil mainly because he was very low in merit
did his uni education in full chill mode and now job kay lalay lagay hoay hain

there r opportunities for Engineering its ur merit/degree and a little bit of luck thts needed

as for scope of Engineering in Pakistan its nill with regards to Research and Development
most jobs for Engineering r centered on Production and manufacturing
add an MBA degree on top of it and u got ample opportunities

as for Audi and BMW i myself wuld work for the money mostly aswell coz u cant live without it can u?
but im not willing to do work in a field which i hate and have no interest in
for me i hate accounting and cant picture myself doing tht sort of work day in and day out

 

[devildante99]

The pace at which people are doing ACCA, the market will get crowded with them sooner than later. Besides if you really want to pursue a career in finance i'd say get a university degree in it, rather than do ACCA fom LUMS or wherever you want. Because at the end of the day ACCA isn't actually a degree.


*Braces for rafay's attack*

 

[deffury]

^Ditto

The market for MBA and ACCA guys are very saturated at the moment, very few of my friends have made it to the top in the field but then they also did shit loads of planning like one friend who went to NY and did his CFA there. Spent his time on the market there then came here, and became a BA freelancer for various companies.

But the n there are friends who just didnt seize the moment, like my Pure blooded American friend (with American passport), who did his MBA, and yet couldnt get a job.

---------- Post added at 05:41 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:40 PM ----------

@Rafay321
Plz dont assume member's age, many of us here are much older, and experienced than you think.

 

[Rafay321]

@ everyone

I never said other professions do not pay. All i said is that engineering is a low paying field initially which is true. Of course every field has top positions. You can climb up the top positions in accountancy and finance and IT quiet fast as compared to engineering and medical. All the engineers i have interacted with wasn't quiet satisfied. And trust me i have met quiet a few from different countries from electrical to mechanical with proper degrees from UK, Australia, India and SA.

The entire myth about saturation of market is quiet a big bakwas. Don't fall for it. You only get to know ACCA's and other international qualifications' worth when you leave this country. 50k becomes a joke.

@the 22 yeard old engineer earning 50k....why don't i see you guys in real life.....c'mon don't hide??

One more thing as engineers, one become industry specific. While mechanical and electrical engineers (electricians?) can work in manufacturing sector others like aircraft engineers etc are quiet limited to airline industry. While in business and finance you can work in practically ANY organization from banks to insurance to manufacturing to accountancy and consultancy firms to hospitals to NGOs to airlines automobile blah blah. Thus the job oppurunities are endless which mitigates the myth about saturation. The market is quiet huge specially globally to be saturated so easily brother.

 

[hasanJ]

One more thing as engineers, one become industry specific. While mechanical and electrical engineers (electricians?) can work in manufacturing sector others like aircraft engineers etc

thts the reason i took Electrical over Electronics and Telecom
much bigger scope and more job varieties
thought im not denying its initially a low paying field

oh and i resent u calling Electrical Engineer an "Electrician" :S

 

[Rafay321]

^^ I was talking about being industry specific. As telecom engineer or whatever it called one will be limited to telecom sector of course. On other hand business and finance people can go anywhere and everywhere as i already explained, thus lots of jobs and opportunities. This is only one thing as you can even start you own accountancy and consultancy practice and become self employed.

Glad you agree that it is low paying at least initially.

Sorry about the electrician thing

---------- Post added at 09:10 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:08 PM ----------

Hmm thanks for that advice

Tell me something:

This is how I plan to do my studies. This November I will finish my O levels.

After that I plan on doing A levels in BS, Economics, Accounts and some other subject as well (not sure which one :|)

After A levels, this is what some people suggested I should do:-

1) For the next 4 years, do ACCA and do BBA alongside it (since they say its quite easy after A levels).

2) At the end of 4 years when my ACCA and BBA is finished, I should do MBA for 2 years and then leave pakistan for probably the UK to do ICAEW (International Chartered Accountants of England and Wales, highest degree in accountancy in the UK). (there I can probably get a job as well (part time )

What do you think?

Btw I'm 17 now, if that matters?

Go for ACCA and you shall complete it by the time you are 22 and you will also get the B.sc degree from Oxford brookes UK. Forget Pakistani BBA and MBA. Either go to middles east or stay in Pak and join big4 firm and go for your next international qualification (CFA/FRM/CIA). By the time you are 25 you will be double qualified graduate with 3 years of experience under your belt. Life will become easy by then. Enjoy the rest of it. Later if you have time (sure you will have money) go for executive MBA from UK or any other international destination. Then never look back.

ICAEW is not worth it. After ACCA you will have the same qualification. Sometimes it goes against you as employers don't like same qualification twice.

---------- Post added at 09:17 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:10 PM ----------

The pace at which people are doing ACCA, the market will get crowded with them sooner than later. Besides if you really want to pursue a career in finance i'd say get a university degree in it, rather than do ACCA fom LUMS or wherever you want. Because at the end of the day ACCA isn't actually a degree.


*Braces for rafay's attack*

aah my attack lol.

Bro as i have said we finance people are not industry specific and the oppurtunities never end. We may see some ups and downs but the thing is that we can apply in ANY company as we are needed everywhere. It is really hard to saturate this field. The latest HR surveys in Mid east shows that finance and audit professionals are still getting jobs and in fact there is a GAP specially in the financial market of middle east (Banks, insurance, leasing companies etc)

Civil engineers on the other hands are badly hit as the construction sector of UAE went down and all the projects were put on hold.

 

[deffury]

One more thing as engineers, one become industry specific. While mechanical and electrical engineers (electricians?) can work in manufacturing sector others like aircraft engineers etc are quiet limited to airline industry. While in business and finance you can work in practically ANY organization from banks to insurance to manufacturing to accountancy and consultancy firms to hospitals to NGOs to airlines automobile blah blah. Thus the job oppurunities are endless which mitigates the myth about saturation. The market is quiet huge specially globally to be saturated so easily brother.

Actually, All Engineers can easily get Management and executives jobs in any industry at ease. I have known guys who have done Engg in Metallurgy, worked in that profession, and then left it to join Telenor as Executive Regional head. Another guy did his BEng in Civil, worked in it for 6 years then joined a high rank govt position (Yes he had some backing in it, and those backs were formed during his CivEngg days).

Oh and to all those saying Engg jobs are till 50K in Pakiland, then you guys are waaayyy wrong. BTW how many Finance guys in Finance actually get more than 80K in one company. (Please dont include guys in Mega industries like Phillips or STiles which have over 3000 employees )

 

[Rafay321]

Actually, All Engineers can easily get Management and executives jobs in any industry at ease. I have known guys who have done Engg in Metallurgy, worked in that profession, and then left it to join Telenor as Executive Regional head. Another guy did his BEng in Civil, worked in it for 6 years then joined a high rank govt position (Yes he had some backing in it, and those backs were formed during his CivEngg days).

Oh and to all those saying Engg jobs are till 50K in Pakiland, then you guys are waaayyy wrong. BTW how many Finance guys in Finance actually get more than 80K in one company. (Please dont include guys in Mega industries like Phillips or STiles which have over 3000 employees )

^ I agree engineers getting executive jobs but chances are low. However, MBAs and Finance professionals are first priority for these jobs because they are trained to do this work.

Not all finance jobs are 80k. There are clerical ones as well where they fit in bcoms and and MBAs from some low grade unis. In a given finance department 25% of the posts are actually desirable. There are always few posts where you work till 2 am and still underpaid. However, Finance and business professionals work in other departments such as internal audit, business development, marketing etc. In banks they can easily move to Retail banking, risk management, treasury, operations, refinancing, corporate and consumer financing etc. As i said the opportunities are vast and the list is endless.

Similarly there are risk management, treasury, marketing and audit functions in manufacturing concerns besides finance where all these accounts,finance and business people work. Even in HR i have seen quiet a lot of MBAs. One of my senior managers is working in Emirates airline as risk manager after completing her CA in Pakistan. I am myself away from accounting these days. I have been doing consultancy assignments which hardly invloves any number crunching. It involves meetings witht he highest level like CFO, CEO and MD and BODs and head of departments where i get to interact with them and develop myself professionally. Accounts is the last thing i would like to do in my life.

I think you have a wrong impression of finance people being limited to finance. Just like you said engineers securing executive jobs, finance people secure more orgnisation wide jobs than you can think of.

You will find that less than 5% of executive jobs are taken up by engineers in a given company and that too because they show the merit of the same. The biggest manufacturing concerns that i have seen in Pak hardly have people with engineering degrees doing business development and management type of jobs. Quiet rare but there are few.

I don't remember the name exactly but there is one AC manufacturing company in Pak which is a division of General motors i think. Its CEO is a Bsc in electrical engineering. Again this is like special talent and very rare.

Again i am telling you all this because i have done payrolls and HR audits and have seen 1000 of employees through out every department of a company.

---------- Post added at 11:33 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:05 PM ----------

This is how my personal list goes when it comes to career priority wise.

1- Business and finance
2- Medical
3- IT
4- Engineering

 

[deffury]

^I think you have a wrong idea of other fields altogether

-There will always be those selected people who get great packages and they tend to maintain it for many years
-Most guys in all professions will end up around 60K packages
-No matter which field you are in, the monies will always be more in countries like Dubai, US, UK
-My main point behind this discussion is that one should not belittle others work/profession/field, there's always more to see and learn in life

 

[old bigboss]

^no use man,let him ride his high horse -_______-

 

[Rafay321]

^I think you have a wrong idea of other fields altogether

-There will always be those selected people who get great packages and they tend to maintain it for many years
-Most guys in all professions will end up around 60K packages
-No matter which field you are in, the monies will always be more in countries like Dubai, US, UK
-My main point behind this discussion is that one should not belittle others work/profession/field, there's always more to see and learn in life

- Agreed. Read my posts again.
- Regarding your second point. Seriously good luck with a Pakistani degree in UK or USA (Goes for almost every field). Mid east is different. Even Bcom get suitable jobs there.Our country has become quiet famous now when it comes to degrees by the way. I wasted my last 2 years studying nothing because i did not have money for international qualification. I could have easily done my MBA from iqra, preston, zabist, KU or even IBA but i know these are useless piece of papers considering where i want to be. Matric was the last Pakistani thing i have on my CV and i don't want any Pakistani education black spot on my CV now.
- Agreed.


@old bigboss i am not riding any horse and as i said i talk from experience and what i have seen. If you have something useful to contribute step forward. Looks liek you are one of those who close their eye when they see danger thinking they are safe.

 

[tanzeel772]

SAT 1 is ridiculously hard to get a decent score on. For the subject tests, go with the standard Engineering subjects (Math-II, Physics and Chemistry) but in the subject tests, anything less than the 2300 is considered pretty bad because they're extremely easy to score on. Most Pakistani universities require subject tests and anything over 2300 will give you a decent shot.

 

[devildante99]

- Agreed. Read my posts again.
- Regarding your second point. Seriously good luck with a Pakistani degree in UK or USA (Goes for almost every field). Mid east is different. Even Bcom get suitable jobs there.Our country has become quiet famous now when it comes to degrees by the way. I wasted my last 2 years studying nothing because i did not have money for international qualification. I could have easily done my MBA from iqra, preston, zabist, KU or even IBA but i know these are useless piece of papers considering where i want to be. Matric was the last Pakistani thing i have on my CV and i don't want any Pakistani education black spot on my CV now.
- Agreed.


@old bigboss i am not riding any horse and as i said i talk from experience and what i have seen. If you have something useful to contribute step forward. Looks liek you are one of those who close their eye when they see danger thinking they are safe.

I wonder why you rate all pakistani universities like that? You name preston, iqra, szabist etc but these actually are not the top universities of pakistan.

The Likes of, LUMS, GIKI, NUST, FAST, COMSATS,IBA are all excellent universities with collaboration from around the world. I am in nust, and i have seen people sent to Universities like Harvard, MIT and LSE from NUST on a full scholarship.

Recently my friend from NUST with a 3.6 GPA went to LSE(london school of economics) and got a 50% scholarship.

So not all pakistani universities are bad my friend.

 

[Rafay321]

I am sorry but it may be my personal opinion. Pakistani unis and their degrees suck big time. As i said except for matric, i do not having anything Pakistani on my CV. I prefer waiting 2 years to arrange finances for further studies rather than getting a Pakistani degree from anywhere any uni in Pak.

See it goes way back when i completed my Matric from a Pakistani school in Dubai. Me and my friend were looking for jobs. We went to this interview where a British lady interviewed us. I had to spend 15 mins explaining what i studied while she understood my friend's O levels quiet easily. That day i decided i wont ever go for Pakistani education now. I am sure not even 5% of theemployers in UK knows about IBA, LUMS or GIKI. I don't want to waste my time explaining them that LUMS is the best Uni in Pak where 50% NA members and govt officials have fake degrees.


I know even my Lums, IBA, NUST or giki degree wont help me when someone from Australia, Canada or UK will compete with me in an interview in some neutral venue. You will get my point when you face it. Don't quote me examples of people with degrees from these Unis going abroad and getting decent jobs. I am dead sure 95% of these enroll in their unis before applying for jobs. Others promise their employers to go for a local degree on their or company's expense. The only thing is that they just don't tell you.

PS. Don't get offended whoever is studying in Unis over here. Its my personal opinion and what i have seen in my life and sorry to say its a harsh reality. even Indian Unis are well recognized all over the world.

Financial Times ranked Indian School of Business in Hyderabad as 15th best MBA school in the WORLD in 2009 and 12th in 2010. Many UK, US, Canadian and Australian unis were ranked below. So lets face it now.

---------- Post added at 11:31 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:09 PM ----------

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_School_of_Business

There you go. Even US presidents go there for visits.

---------- Post added at 11:33 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:31 PM ----------

oh here i found a very unreliable ranking of Asian MBA schools and LUMS is at 25th right at the bottom in Asian ranking lolzzz

http://toprankingmba.com/topmba_asia.htm

 

[Crow]

^ OK, this is what you sound like now:

"Oh look at me, I'm so rich dahahaha my parents can afford educating me in Dubai as well as any university in the world, because they're rich and I'm rich, so I will study something to be rich in future, etc. Disregard that more than 90% of the general Pakistani population can never afford to have the opportunities that I have... I will continue to rub my fortune in the faces of other people just because I can!"

 

[Sire Ahsan]

For all the degrees and educations you all people claim to have or are pursuing ... you people surely lack on being a bit ethical.