MULTI The Matrix Awakens [OT] A UE5 Experience of "HOLY SH*T, we've been Virtua Cop'ed"

[Necrokiller]

@EternalBlizzard Remember Kingdom Come: Deliverance? It also has SVOGI. Imagine thinking this is a new thing that only "console folks" will have

 

[CerebralTiger]

Huh? Who said it's new? The UE4 tech demo had it lmao

It was ultimately removed from the engine for a reason.

 

[Necrokiller]

And then they dropped it from their engine while PC still had it

 

[CerebralTiger]

Exactly my point. Just like they should drop - ab main sirf RT kahun ga tou Blizzy phir confuse hou jaye ga - HW-accelerated RTGI from consoles this gen, while PC will still have it

 

[EternalBlizzard]

On a side note, gotta agree with desparado some what. While there won't be a "bye bye console" anytime soon, consoles really seem to struggle as we move forward. This is because tech is advancing really fast and the console companies find it hard to keep up. Reason why see PROs and version 2's and what not coming in. Secondly as our tsundere admitted, consoles will always use cheaper alternatives. This is gonna happen till either general purpose compute units become strong enough that dedicated units like NVIDIA's RT cores and what not become worthless OR console hardware adapts to add in all these dedicated thingies.

And do note, while RDNA2 has ray-accelerator units, NVIDIA's RT cores don't just do raytracing, they also do things like BVH-traversal. Where as there is no means for that on RDNA2 as it uses general compute units for that. Overall gotta agree with desprado on the gap between NVIDIA and AMD and thus consoles not keeping up but we also have to notice the fact that NVIDIA is just a single company so it's very specialized. On the other hand, AMD is more general and is widespread. So just because NVIDIA has these shiny cores, doesn't mean the game developers are going to target that fo sure. But who says, they can't do that for PC and dumb things down for consoles

 

[Necrokiller]

Exactly my point. Just like they should drop - ab main sirf RT kahun ga tou Blizzy phir confuse hou jaye ga - HW-accelerated RTGI from consoles this gen, while PC will still have it

LMAO at trying to save face from that blunder.

The whole point of moving to hardware acceleration is to improve performance, so your so-called "software based non-RT SVOGI" wasn't a "cheaper" alternative.

 

[EternalBlizzard]

If you're going to put it like that, the GI we've had in games for years with bounce lighting is also a derivative of ray tracing lol. The difference is in approach. Realistically, RT requires HW-acceleration, while SVOGI does not. It's approximation based on voxel cones, and, therefore, updating it every frame is simply a lot cheaper and more performant.

Then I think you should refer to this as HW-accelerated GI and non HW accelerated GI. Whether or not one or the other is based on Raytracing or not doesn't seem to be of concern to you since you are more interested in whether or not it's HW-accelerated or not as consoles can't or shouldn't have that. xD

 

[CerebralTiger]

LMAO at trying to save face from that blunder.

The whole point of moving to hardware acceleration is to improve performance, so your so-called "software based non-RT SVOGI" wasn't a "cheaper" alternative.

lmao @ saving face

So you've seen the demo running without HW-accelerated GI?

I can see it being a better alternative on Nvidia gpus. On AMD hardware based consoles? There are no dedicated cores, so approximation is the way to go

Then I think you should refer to this as HW-accelerated GI and non HW accelerated GI. Whether or not one or the other is based on Raytracing or not doesn't seem to be of concern to you since you are more interested in whether or not it's HW-accelerated or not as consoles can't or shouldn't have that. xD

lol if you're going to get into semantics, here's what I said 2 days ago:

Well, yeah, there's a single light source lighting up the whole city i.e. the sun (there are no street lights). Lumen can't just be disabled here, because there are no pre-baked lights. What can be done, however, is disabling HW-accelerated GI and reverting back to the SVOGI-like alternatives

Anyway, while path tracing is the core idea behind both, I don't agree that RTGI and SVOGI are interchangeable terms. One is algorithmically aiming for accuracy (hence the need for HW-acceleration) while the other for approximation.

 

[Necrokiller]

So you've seen the demo running without HW-accelerated GI?

Not only would a SW-accelerated version perform worse here, it would also look worse because it has limitations in regards to geometry and materials support in its current state, the reason why it wasn't chosen for this demo to begin with

Like Alex said, achieving 60fps in a demo like this is not simply a case of turning Lumen off or using "non-RT SVOGI" or whatever the hell you like to call it. The first UE5 demo, using a "cheaper software based alternative" wasn't running at 60fps either

 

[EternalBlizzard]

smjh nae aya abhi tk ye so called discusssiooon ka point kia he, seedhi road aur logic ke maa behen hogae

 

[CerebralTiger]

Not only would a SW-accelerated version perform worse here, it would also look worse because it has limitations in regards to geometry and materials support in its current state, the reason why it wasn't chosen for this demo to begin with

The SW-"accelerated" version of Lumen is also running RTGI. In this scenario, HW-acceleration would naturally yield better performance. When I say HW-accelerated RTGI should be dropped, I don't mean it should be replaced with SW-based RTGI lol. SVOGI is rasterization-based

UE5 obviously isn't going to be limited to RTGI, and there will be rasterization-based alternatives. AMD gpus don't have dedicated cores for RT, and, therefore, RTGI has a dramatic impact on performance. SVOGI is the more performant way forward on consoles

smjh nae aya abhi tk ye so called discusssiooon ka point kia he, seedhi road aur logic ke maa behen hogae

Let's have a discussioooon on your earlier post, then

On a side note, gotta agree with desparado some what. While there won't be a "bye bye console" anytime soon, consoles really seem to struggle as we move forward.

While you make some fair points regarding weak RT performance of the current-gen consoles and AMD GPUs, consoles struggling to move forward has happened every generation. More importantly, both you and desprado seem to be fixated solely on GPU performance lol. The real advancement for consoles this generation comes from their CPU and fast IO. PC ki on-going struggle ko na bhoolo (RIP Necrokiller's BF 2042 dream).

Then there are shader compilation stutters in every other AAA PC game these days. Press S for struggle

 

[EternalBlizzard]

The SW-"accelerated" version of Lumen is also running RTGI. In this scenario, HW-acceleration would naturally yield better performance. When I say HW-accelerated RTGI should be dropped, I don't mean it should be replaced with SW-based RTGI lol. SVOGI is rasterization-based

UE5 obviously isn't going to be limited to RTGI, and there will be rasterization-based alternatives. AMD gpus don't have dedicated cores for RT, and, therefore, RTGI has a dramatic impact on performance. SVOGI is the more performant way forward on consoles

Again, SVOGI is hybrid. It's direct illumination is rasterization based but uses cone tracing for indirect. Although I get your point. SVOGI is better for AMD based hardware. Haven't seen a comparison of SVOGI vs RTX but RTX would surely win cuz it does both DI + GI.

Let's have a discussioooon on your earlier post, then

Aesa to nae karo yar Necro rojaega, previous wale discussiooon chordi xD

While you make some fair points regarding weak RT performance of the current-gen consoles and AMD GPUs, consoles struggling to move forward has happened every generation. More importantly, both you and desprado seem to be fixated solely on GPU performance lol. The real advancement for consoles this generation comes from their CPU and fast IO. PC ki on-going struggle ko na bhoolo (RIP Necrokiller's BF 2042 dream).

Then there are shader compilation stutters in every other AAA PC game these days. Press S for struggle

Iska jawab Necro dega, you fly-eyed monster

 

[Necrokiller]

Iska jawab Necro dega, you fly-eyed monster

Nahi yaar. Like I already said Itne broken ideas ab handle nhi hote isske. I’ll let him enjoy his modern Virtua Cop

 

[EternalBlizzard]

@CerebralTiger - Dko yar isi lie kaha tha aek sath apne 50 shades na dkaya karo

 

[Necrokiller]

Usse ghussa iss baat ka hai keh all his “coded to the metal” games stutter on PS5/Switch and I was here to point that out

RIP SSD dreams

 

[CerebralTiger]

Necrokiller's "Virtua Cop" comment confirms he got boored of the Matrix demo and closed the video right after the on-rails section

Again, SVOGI is hybrid. It's direct illumination is rasterization based but uses cone tracing for indirect.

If you're baking the effect of direct illumination (from the sun, for example) on surfaces and using that data to determine indirect illumination, it's largely rasterization-based lol. The resultant bounce light(s) is cone traced, but it's based on a prebaked source to begin with.

It's far more performant, as a result. Necrokiller brought up Kingdom Come: Deliverance, but he forgot to mention that his beloved Crysis remastered uses SVOGI on last-gen console (even on the Switch lmao), and there's also a performance mode that targets 60fps on the Pro/One X (at lower precision i.e. less light bounces, of course).

Haven't seen a comparison of SVOGI vs RTX but RTX would surely win cuz it does both DI + GI.

RTGI would naturally win in terms of accuracy, as SVOGI is approximation. The latter would still be great and achieve higher frame rates on current-gen consoles.

Iska jawab Necro dega, you fly-eyed monster

Necrokiller, much like his ex-guru Alex, refrained from making any video on BF 2042 PC. Dat struggle

 

[Necrokiller]

Because KCD did it in 2015

If you wanna go farther back, Miscreated was the first game to use SVOGI, while Epic was busy taking it out of their engine

 

[Necrokiller]

Troooooly next gen demo H*LY SH*T

 

[CerebralTiger]

Necrokiller still salty about the demo being a no-show on PC. Don't worry, engine ke official launch ke saath aajaye ga

 

[desprado]

Necrokiller still salty about the demo being a no-show on PC. Don't worry, engine ke official launch ke saath aajaye ga

Lol

I found a old video of Digital Foundry, where they stated RTX 2070 Super>>>>Xbox X series.

While some people were comparing it with RTX 2070 Super with PS5. This is what happen when a metal shock of denial comes in and everything looks like whataboutism.