MULTI Square Enix Confirms Gamescom line up.

[CerebralTiger]

If square still decides to keep Versus and Exclusive then that's their chopice but common sense and Logic would suggest that it's more likely that Versus will be multiplat.

Just as it was logical for MGS4 to be multiplat, even though that didn't end up being the case.

For all we know, there may actually be some kind of exclusivity deal in place between SE and Sony (that is, if the game ever sees the light of day).

 

[sshah]

[MENTION=11846]Gizmo[/MENTION] Are you blind? There are TWO links containing statements in the spoiler tag about Wii-U's porting costs from Ubisoft's dev. Did you ignore them on purpose? FMVs' are made on super computers, and recorded into the game later. Why else do you think all these blockbuster Hollywood movies that rely heavily special effects have high budgets? It costs millions to make these FMVs, depending upon how much juice is used from these super computers. They don't come cheap. If you think that, then you shouldn't be discussing anything.

And about game development costs, educate yourself: Top 10 most expensive video game budgets ever

FFXIII is about 50% more expensive than XII. Where do you think all that money on 12 went to? PS2 was not that expensive to develop for. It was a fucking, dirt cheap console. So many Indy Japanese games along with mainstream titles - numbers in thousands - were never even released else where. All of that stopped with PS3, because it was too expensive for these devs, hence they chose WII, and that's why it is so popular over there. CHEAP development costs. About 30% - possibly more - obviously went to expensive FMVs.

Not because of the CGI costs, but because of the programers as well. Some of the lead animators and programers in this GCI industry have pay scales of 5000+ $ per month per person. Are you serious? CGI footage depends upon a LOT of factors. What kind of tools a company has? What kind of footage they are trying to achieve? The costs go up according to these factors.

Assets? Which part of porting costs don't you get? And I am pulling stuff out of my ass? Dude, all you have done is make pointless statements. Nomura has ZERO games on MS's console. MS has some shares in Disney - or is it the other way around - and I suppose it never occurred to them to secure KH games to their consoles that sell are funnel cakes in Japan.

Stop accusing me of pulling stuff out of my ass; it is all you.

 

[Chandoo]

For all we know, there may actually be some kind of exclusivity deal in place between SE and Sony

You mean great big sacks of money ? Yeah I think that much is pretty blatantly obvious

 

[BumperJumper]

Sony are not in the same position anymore as they were during the launch of Playstation 3. They had a exclusivity deal for MGS 4 and they even financed the game but i don't think that the same is true for Versus XIII.

I don't care anyways. I'd play it on whatever platform it launches, just show us some sort of progress and a playable demo during TGS. I am tired of waiting for it :\

 

[Chandoo]

[MENTION=23334]sshah[/MENTION]

Wii U is the ONLY console that takes million $ dollars to port, and devs are calling it DIRT CHEAP. If one million is dirt cheap, I can only imagine how much it costs for devs to port games from PS3 to 360 or vice versa. And both of these consoles are very very expensive to develop for. PS3 being even more so in this regard.

Holy shit, I know it's gonna fall on deaf ears but let me take a stab at telling you why you're wrong...

k .. first off the reason it takes a small amount to PORT OVER to the WiiU is because WiiU is essentially a current-gen console, same specs, close to the same architecture etc, which is why game engines probably won't require much to port over. That's not rocket science.

Now, you're long winded and completely dumb explanation of why porting games to 360 or PS3 is expensive is .. well.. ridiculous .. almost all modern day game engines are made with cross platform development tool sets from day 1. Capcom's MT Framework, Epic's Unreal, even Square's Crystal Tools are engines designed for multipaltform development, I don't know the thought process for each engine, but Crytek put out several development videos for Crysis 2 and there tool set simply takes the same code for the PC version and makes adjustments to fit on the 360 and PS3's specifications on the fly, they showed the same code generated on the fly running on a PC, a 360 devkit and a PS3 devkit in mere seconds.

So, you're wrong in that porting to 360 or PS3 costs more money, 90% the case is that the engine powering the game is already designed for both platforms, so it's a dirt cheap process, the money spent is done spending in the advertisement, and pressing of the materials for the consoles etc.

Alright, now to your other point, when FFXIII was announced for the 360, at that time the Crystal Tools was not a multiplatform engine, it was only meant to make PS3 games (more specifically the FF games square announced in 2005), but they most probably hastily ported over FFXIII in the time frame of 6 months, and the squre-enix insider Kagari (who CerebralTiger trusts to no end) has said a couple of times that the 360 port of FFXIII was outsourced to the development studio that made Last Remnant, it wasn't ported over by the production house that actually made the assets and engine for FFXIII.

Which is why it ended up being a lack luster port, bad compression, 3 discs when the game could have easily fit on 2 at most, badly optimized asset transition etc etc.. you've seen this several times, just like how Sega ported Bayonetta to PS3, not Platinum Games, which is why the PS3 version ended up being a train wreck.

Compared to that FFXIII-2 is probably the first (and so far only) Crystal Tools game that was co-developed with both consoles in mind, and relied heavily on in-engine assets rather than pre-rendered assets that FFXIII did. Which is why you can see the difference between the 360 and PS3 version of FFXIII-2 is merely two frames or so in terms of performance, else they are 100% like for like in terms of resolution, texture quality and so forth.

Now the problem is that Crystal Tools itself is a shitty piece of engine, and Square have decided to ditch it for the revamped FF14 version 2.0. They're using a proprietary engine, not Crystal Tools. This is most probably the same reason why Versus is being delayed so much, cause square's development tools so far have been, quite simply, a piece of shit.

Now as far as your question about porting costs and shit go, FFXIII sold around .75 million on the 360, FFXIII-2 probably the same, for a JRPG these are probably some of the highest numbers you'll see on the 360, and they're of a game that took minimal costs to develop as the engine powering it was already multiplatform. Didn't require dedicated development or major tweaking.

I hope that clears some things up

 

[sshah]

^ What are you talking about, when I NEVER even touched the concept of multiplatform games that are developed on a freaking PC using an engine designed for both platforms? The game that is built from the ground up on 360 or PS3 - PS3 more so - would be difficult to port over to 360 because of optimization for PS3 regardless of the fact that Crystal tools is just a shitty variation of unreal engine. Do you think they won't use additional tools to get most out of the console? And I already know Crystal Tools is a multiplatform engine. Didn't stop XIII from looking godawful on 360, and didn't stop SE yet again from publicizing PS3's XIII-2 footage, and pass it off as 360s' ...again. lol So much for looking close.

Forget what I said, you are not even talking about ports in your first part. Heck, I never talked about that scenario. And that point about Wii u is pointless. Regardless of console specs, it is dirt cheap, so it is dirt cheap. As majority of the devs are saying, constantly emphasizing the fact that it is expensive to port games over to the other consoles.

That was NOT crystal tools, but white engine, they altered that one into crystal tools, or most probably scraped it altogether. Hope that cleared things up from my perspective.

P.s: You talked about the point I was trying to make with Baynonetta yourself. Bad optimizations, which could be due to console hardware architecture differences, 360 being more closer to PC, and PS3 literally sitting on the opposite side. Good optimizations needs time, people, and that requires money. That was all I was trying to say.

[MENTION=24078]DarkLordMalik[/MENTION] Do you really think they are going to secure an exclusive deal now of all the times, when the release date of Versus is just around the corner? If they really did that - which is a possibility considering how Wada was not quick to announce its PS3 departure - they probably secured it at the time XIII went over.

 

[Chandoo]

the fact that Crystal tools is just a shitty variation of unreal engine

No it isn't :S

and didn't stop SE yet again from publicizing PS3's XIII-2 footage, and pass it off as 360s' ...again. lol So much for looking close.

DF analysis : Face-Off: Final Fantasy 13-2 • Face offs • Eurogamer.net (they actually prefer the way some visual elements like shadows look on the 360 version infact, while the PS3 version has a frame rate advantage, otherwise both versions look almost identical as per their analysis).

Lens of Truth : Head2Head: Final Fantasy XIII-2 Analysis (PS3 vs. Xbox 360) (They begin the graphics section with the statement that both of the games look identical).

The ps3-for-360 footage thing happened once in the UK, if it has happened again please feel free to post sources verifying your claims.

Forget what I said, you are not even talking about ports in your first part. Heck, I never talked about that scenario. And that point about Wii u is pointless. Regardless of console specs, it is dirt cheap, so it is dirt cheap. As majority of the devs are saying, constantly emphasizing the fact that it is expensive to port games over to the other consoles.

But why is it dirt cheap ? because it's matching specs of harwdare released in 2005/2006, of course 7 year old technology will be DIRT CHEAP today, at this point the wiiU can only expect to get 360/PS3 games, but when the next gen starts and squre starts putting out games on their Luminous Engine they ain't gonna be coming over to the WiiU.

P.s: You talked about the point I was trying to make with Baynonetta yourself. Bad optimizations, which could be due to console hardware architecture differences, 360 being more closer to PC, and PS3 literally sitting on the opposite side. Good optimizations needs time, people, and that requires money. That was all I was trying to say.

and I agree with this point, what i wanted to highlight was that at the time of FFXIII the Crystal Tools wasn't optimized for the 360, hence the bad port, which was remedied around 90% by the time FFXIII-2 came around.

 

[BumperJumper]

DF analysis : Face-Off: Final Fantasy 13-2 • Face offs • Eurogamer.net (they actually prefer the way some visual elements like shadows look on the 360 version infact, while the PS3 version has a frame rate advantage, otherwise both versions look almost identical as per their analysis).

Lens of Truth : Head2Head: Final Fantasy XIII-2 Analysis (PS3 vs. Xbox 360) (They begin the graphics section with the statement that both of the games look identical).

Actually it is no mere 2 FPS difference but more of a 5-6 FPS difference(16-20%) between both version and in the case of a 30 fps game, it sure makes a hell lot of difference.

The only way i am seeing Versus XIII coming for Xbox 360 is if they had somehow started multiplatform development on it for more than a year. But still i won't like playing a crap port with multi discs and highly compressed FMVs along with terrible frame rate. This is all evident even in FF XIII-2 which had less FMVs(Still suffered due to compression) but still suffered from choppy frame rate on Xbox 360.

 

[Gizmo]

^^The choppy framerates weren't really any problem at all, the battles were especially smooth save for a few of the last boss fights that were fought on top a flying airship.Otherwise the gameplay was pretty smooth.

Anyways, assuming that there isn't an exclusivity deal in place for Versus XIII, We can still say that Versus could quite easily end up on the 360, Maybe Nomura just wanted to switch over to a new engine for Versus and that's why it's taking so long.

 

[sshah]

No it isn't :S



DF analysis : Face-Off: Final Fantasy 13-2 • Face offs • Eurogamer.net (they actually prefer the way some visual elements like shadows look on the 360 version infact, while the PS3 version has a frame rate advantage, otherwise both versions look almost identical as per their analysis).

Lens of Truth : Head2Head: Final Fantasy XIII-2 Analysis (PS3 vs. Xbox 360) (They begin the graphics section with the statement that both of the games look identical).

The ps3-for-360 footage thing happened once in the UK, if it has happened again please feel free to post sources verifying your claims.



But why is it dirt cheap ? because it's matching specs of harwdare released in 2005/2006, of course 7 year old technology will be DIRT CHEAP today, at this point the wiiU can only expect to get 360/PS3 games, but when the next gen starts and squre starts putting out games on their Luminous Engine they ain't gonna be coming over to the WiiU.




and I agree with this point, what i wanted to highlight was that at the time of FFXIII the Crystal Tools wasn't optimized for the 360, hence the bad port, which was remedied around 90% by the time FFXIII-2 came around.

Let me get back to you on that Unreal engine part. I need to find that link again. So that part, consider it on hold.

I never said that the versions didn't look identical. I merely pointed out SE's typical tactics. And you won't find any link on the web explicitly saying that. Heck, there isn't one for XIII either, but the people who have played both games claim so. Just like it was the case with XIII. People pointed out. And the difference is bigger than that. So many people I know, who own both versions claim that. Now, I have only played XIII-2 a bit on PS3, never ended it.

I need to see it running on 360 myself to give you the full lowdown. But the overwhelming response from the players says otherwise.

Isn't that hardware part about Wiiu obvious? The point is, at the end it is cheap. And of course there will be no ports from PS4 to 720 in the future, regardless of SE's new engine or not.

Haven't they shifted Versus to a new engine? Aren't there speculations flying around about that too? Granted, unless the cat doesn't come out of the box, we can't say for sure that what tools are they using for Versus. Did they get help from Sony, IF we put the whole exclusivity deal into equation, or were there some in-house tools? Then the whole case of full optimization on that engine for PS3 specifically etc. Unless they don't come out and say something, I am going to keep believing in Nomura's statements about using PS3 to develop an open world game.

Then there is the case of Nomura as well. He hasn't taken a single game of his on MS. So a port to WII U still sounds logical to me.

 

[Gizmo]

Then there is the case of Nomura as well. He hasn't taken a single game of his on MS. So a port to WII U still sounds logical to me.

And again you make sound like Developers are just immature fanboys who take favourites.FF XIII was the first ever FF game on an M$ platform, before that they were exclusive to SONY consoles and before that they were exclusive to Nintendo consoles, There's no reason why Nomura would not want to port the game over to the 360.

 

[BumperJumper]

And again you make sound like Developers are just immature fanboys who take favourites.FF XIII was the first ever FF game on an M$ platform, before that they were exclusive to SONY consoles and before that they were exclusive to Nintendo consoles, There's no reason why Nomura would not want to port the game over to the 360.

Actually Final Fantasy XI was the first FF title on Xbox 360.

You should also remember Final Fantasy XIV is a PS3 exclusive so far and Square Enix hasn't released any plans for it to be released on Xbox 360.

If one game from a series makes it way to a different platform, it doesn't mean every other game in the series will do the same.

Besides they had to face a lot of hate from fanboys when XIII was announced for Xbox 360. It is safe to assume that they won't suddenly announce it for the Xbox 360, that too right during TGS. Since we are talking about Japan here where PS3 is leaps above Xbox 360.

 

[Chandoo]

.FF XIII was the first ever FF game on an M$ platform,

Second.

FFXI has been on the 360 since 2006, and is updated on a regular basis.

 

[Gizmo]

FF XIII is the first Single Player FF on an M$ platfrom and it performed VERY well selling over 1.5 million units, Fanboys will be fanboys I'm sure there was a similar uproar when FF switched from Nintendo to SONY consoles.That shouldn't really stop them from developing more Final Fantasy games for the Xbox 360.

 

[Magma]

Actually Final Fantasy XI was the first FF title on Xbox 360.

You should also remember Final Fantasy XIV is a PS3 exclusive so far and Square Enix hasn't released any plans for it to be released on Xbox 360.

If one game from a series makes it way to a different platform, it doesn't mean every other game in the series will do the same.

Besides they had to face a lot of hate from fanboys when XIII was announced for Xbox 360. It is safe to assume that they won't suddenly announce it for the Xbox 360, that too right during TGS. Since we are talking about Japan here where PS3 is leaps above Xbox 360.

FF XIV didn't make it to the X360 because of M$'s harsh online policies. Otherwise, it was all set to be released on the 360 also.

 

[sshah]

[MENTION=11846]Gizmo[/MENTION] I don't know what you ASSUME I am saying, but Nomura does not have a SINGLE freaking game on xbox, or 360, despite the fact that KH is SE and Disney's franchise. Now believe what you want.

And what does Nomura have anything to do with XIII and XIII-2 aside of minor involvements? I think here is where YOU appear to be completely confused. Nomura = Versus and KH. He has kept all his games on ONE platform, never ported it regardless of the fact whether it was on PS2, or Nintendo for the spin offs. And if XIII really did such a good business, I wonder how and why the company faced terrible loses - look at the links for further info - because of XIII and then XIV? They sure as hell were never able to recoup the revenue they spent.

XIII and XIII-2 almost buried SE into the ground, and all you are seeing is, 'hey look people....they sold a few millions', never mind the fact that were never able to recover from the loses brought about by poor sales from 360, that never managed to compensate for the development costs.

And let's look at 360s present condition in Japan, which is SE's bread and butter. It is literally at the bottom of the barrel, literally. Why would they go through the hassle of porting it, when no one will buy it in Japan, the main turf for FF?

 

[Gizmo]

^^You're very Very mistaken if you think both XIII and XIII-2 Weren't commercial successes, especially thirteen which is one of the best selling games in the franchise @7 million units sold.It was a huge hit regardless of criticisms.

It's true that the 360 doresn't sell in Japan but it sells very well in Europe and NA and most of the sales of FF XIII are from those two regions.You truly are blind, like I've said before porting to the 360 only cost them a very small fraction of the actual developments costs and the 360 version sold 1.5 million units.That means tens of millions of dollars of profits were gained from the 360 version of FF XIII.

those links you keep referring to mention FF XIV being the cause of those loses and indeed it was a huge loss for the company and they've spent two years fixing that mistake.that was all because the game was bad it had nothing to do with the 360 since it was never even released on the PS3.

---------- Post added at 01:13 AM ---------- Previous post was at 01:11 AM ----------

but Nomura does not have a SINGLE freaking game on xbox, or 360, despite the fact that KH is SE and Disney's franchise. Now believe what you want.

And how many AAA titles has Tetsuya Nomura directed this gen exactly? The Answer is NONE!
It's true that Nomura hasn't made a single for the 360 but he hasn't made a single game for the PS3 either.
He's been busy making spinn off titles ofr the KH series for the past 5 years, God knows what he's doing with Versus.

 

[sshah]

^ yeah commercial success, yet a company burial in disguise? No matter what you say, no matter how much it sold, it didn't bring back or generate enough profits, hence the company suffered severe loses not only in 2010 (90%), but in the following year 2011 (76%). Those numbers you keep throwing around are pointless, since the company couldn't make much profit out of it, hence the terrible loses. if a game sells so well, it generates profits; it's basic economics, for the love of god.

What good are these sales in face of such monumental loses? That is one link I gave you. There are several others that put XIII on the pedestal as well, holding it responsible for company's loses, along with consumer distaste, and XIII-2 even - which did help them just a little this year. And where did I say that 360 is responsible for the loses? And you are calling me blind? The irony.

That last point of yours about AAA title is moot and lame. Kh is selling, regardless of it being an AAA title or not, and Nomura has not even bothered porting it else where. Hasn't? He IS working on a PS3 title, namely versus. It is HIS project from the start. Just like KH is. And what he is doing with versus? He has repeatedly said that the game is exclusive for PS3. Repeatedly. I have followed every single one of his interviews. He keeps on saying how he is utilizing the console's power to give shape to his dream project.

Tetsuya Nomura: ‘Time For Kingdom Hearts To Return To A Console’ | My Nintendo News

To A console. Not consoles. It means he plans on taking it to one console, yet again, just like he has been doing it in the past. It could very well be WiiU.

Square Enix 1st Production Dept. Premier Live Blog -- Andriasang.com

2010 development: Exclusive for PS3 (Worldwide).

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Hashimoto (translated from a Famitsu article in '08):
There are no plans for that at all. There is no change about this game's situation and it’ll release on the market exclusively on the PS3 system.

^ How much has changed for Versus's exclusivity since 2008? NOTHING. If you want to play the game so bad, stop day dreaming and buy a Ps3, or a Wiiu. Because if it EVER jumped ship - knowing Nomura not porting any of his games - it will never go to 360. It'll share WII U instead. Quote me on this when it happens. Te console is cheap, it'll pulverize next gen consoles to the ground...again. But of course, according to you, it makes sense to take the game over to 360, rather to the gold mine that is nintendo's WIIU, because you say so with your baseless arguments.

---------- Post added at 02:01 AM ---------- Previous post was at 02:00 AM ----------



---------- Post added at 02:15 AM ---------- Previous post was at 02:01 AM ----------

Check out their Salary scale. No wonder they are suffering losses.

Square Enix Employees Have Higher Average Salaries than Nintendo or Sony | GamePolitics

This doesn't up the development cost at all, I bet.

 

[Gizmo]

Um..........So Nintendo's Wii U is a gold mine while the 360 is dead? Is that what you're saying? A console with an install base larger than the PS3 is worse than hardware that's not even out yet? Really?

Alright dude, whatever, I yield! I'll get a PS3 when Versus comes out, Happy?

 

[sshah]

^ Now you are just grasping at straws. The console is dirt cheap to develop for, it is already getting praises from several devs, and will most likely get ports as well from PS3 and 360. How will it exactly perform, compared to the extremely expensive Ps3 and 360? You don't have to be an Eisenstein to know that. WiiU will out-sell next gen consoles, just like Wii did. And 360 IS dead in Japan, which matters the most to SE.

Check this out, since according to you, KH is not AAA.

- KH13.com - Kingdom Hearts - Kingdom Hearts 3D tops sales charts
- 3DS Sales Jump in Japan Thanks to Kingdom Hearts - 3DS News @ Nintendo Life

It is literally pushing 3DS to first spot, literally. It never occurred to SE or heck even disney to bring this franchise to 360? I wonder why it didn't. And look at 360, right at the bottom, with about 1000 sales. LOL It's STILL kicking? I am surprised. PS2 is still sitting above it.

Check out KH 1 sales alone:

Top 10 in Sales - Square Enix Games - VGChartz

Collectively, KH franchise has pushed around 20 million units to date. Please, DON'T underestimate KH or Nomura's say in SE. Case closed.

P.s: I am just saving you from a predictable outcome. This game is not coming to 360. Better get one of the other two consoles if you want to play Versus. Simple.