MSI Official Response about AMD in Pakistan

[desprado]

Provide credible sources to back up ur claim
Also provide reasonings for the following:

"R9 290 is an HD7970"



R9 290 has 4 Compute Units disabled giving it a total of 2560 SPs instead of 2816 found on R9 290X hence slightly slower performance

And why do u want explanation for its 400$ Price tag? This GPU has the highest Price/Performance ratio of any product in the market today




Guys with 1000W PSUs are not the target of Entry Level AMD Processors we are discussing about

Waiting and saving is not a luxury afforded to everyone as some ppl have a threshold of the amount of money they can spend on a PC
Currently 12k Rs Core i3 is the minumum required processor for decent gaming and we need alternatives with AMD APU provide




GTX780 is 30% Faster than HD7970 hence no competition for GTX780 and its 650$ Price Tag
Those concerned with price/performance bought HD7970 while those who wanted the fastest non-1000$ GPU opted for GTX780

As i said before competition would dictate the Price of GTX780 (650$ at Launch without competition and 500$ today with competition) not number of SMX




What other cores? GTX780 GTX Titan GTX780Ti and Nvidia Tesla GPUs are all based on GK110
As HMS has explained to u the large chunk of GK110 went towards their Tesla GPUs and GTX Titans and those GPUs that had manufacturing faults in 1 or more SMX were sold as GTX780 with 3 SMX Disabled

Fast forward to November 2013 they have enough GK110 with all 15 SMX functional that they can release GTX780Ti




I have given my reasonings above




Read what i posted again


Any further GTX780 series GPU will only have higher clock speeds as they cannot offer more than 15 SMX

@hasanJ who is said 7970 is 30% slower than GTX 780.It was about 25%slower than GTX 780 and R9 290 is also 25% faster than 7970.

 

[hasanJ]

@hasanJ who is said 7970 is 30% slower than GTX 780.It was about 25%slower than GTX 780 and R9 290 is also 25% faster than 7970.

Does the exact figure matter? As every reviewer will give a different number

 

[Baghi]

Did anyone miss the highlighted statement?

(Btw, it's not the same 'rebranded GPU'. A commonality is the die, but the difference is the unified cores).

I know what I'm talking about bud. Nvidia's GeForce GTX 780 Ti graphics card reviewed - The Tech Report - Page 3 - at the the top right. , this brought the same question in my mind as well then I asked Scott on his personal Twitter account and got the same answer, it, is, technically, a GTX 670 rebrand.

 

[SohaibArif]

This discussion has been very much sidetracked.
The issue was never which option was better.
GPU was never even an issue. Only MSI is being a bit ignorant of the fact that several people here do buy AMD GPUs but just not from them.
This is not about actual hardware ,it is about the market and availability or otherwise of options that people may want to buy but those in marketing are too afraid of a loss to actually bring them.
In other words, people need AMD and it is not here. There is a demand or possibility of demand and no one is filling it.
And I already gave a solution for that issue, that is a limited test launch without support. If the test launch is successful then AMD should officially come here.
This is not an issue for hardware guys but for business guys(and FAST teaches some of their points in their CS department so I know a bit about entrepreneurial ventures, economics and marketing). If there are businessmen here on PG can someone bring some to this thread and ask them how this gap in the budget gaming market can be filled?

Also about GPU manufacturing and selling. You can even ask people in AMD and Nvidia and they will tell you that some deliberate limits are put there to cater to various markets. And yes both probably reuse old technology and modify it because they have to get a competing product in the market in time and making completely new things all the time is risky and expensive. Ultimately, they are both there to make money and progress in technology is secondary.

 

[iameXtreme]

Thanks sohaib for directing my attention to this thread...now let me pitch my story here regarding amd's predence in pakistan.
Around 6 to 7 months back i was contacted by AMD themselves with the aim to introduce their lineup of processors in pakistan. They wanted me to be the sole distributor of AMD processors and break intel's monopoly. Even though i did share their enthusiasm in regards to bringing amd here, i did some research of local market before accepting this lucrative offer.
I started discussing with every customer who came to me about their opinion on AMD processors and believe it or not...majority of them instantly used to say...''no no no AMD processors are shit because they heat up a lot..dont u remember? Thats why AMD stopped their operations here because their products were so shit...so why wud u wanna introduce AMD here all over again?'' Even if i would try to educate them that the overheating issue was a thing of the past and now their processors dont face any issues..the customers still didnt show any interest. Only people whp stayed up to date on technology and knew about AMD's new lineup gave some positive feedback. Then i turned towards our trusty, knowledgable shopkeepers...and asked thrm if they would be interested in selling AMD...they unfortunately said the same thing that processors heat up and RMA rate is too high so AMD will NOT work in Pakistan (retailers hate RMA's).

I discussed this issue with the AMD rep and we even thought of doing a lot of marketing to educate people on AMD's products but that presented another challenge. In order to market at such a huge scale, it meant investing a lot of money which frankly speaking i wasnt ready or interested in doing because all those Intel promotions and conferences you see or read about....are financed by Intel themselves..NOT the distributor. Even if AMD did decide to finance the marketing campaign...the main hurdle which atleast i couldnt think of how to overcome was convincing the shop keepers who would actually sell the product. A distributor can only work if retailers are ready and interested in selling the product he is distributing.

So keeping this whole situation in mind i had to reject AMD's offer...even though i myself wanted to accept it...i couldnt due to our typical mentality shop keepers and users as well who rely on getting their tech updates from the same shop keepers. Main problem is lack of education and knowledge and until that is fixed...i dont see AMD coming to pak anytime soon.

Oh and its not that they only approached me...IMX is a very small distributor compared to others here in pak but even the bigger guys refused to sign on with AMD because of this same issue. So thats the story and im sorry to say...but you guys gotta live with it.

I used to love coming to PG because it was all about learning back in the day...that elements gone now and if you guys want to change the pakistani computer industry...i think u have a platform which you can use. Pak gamers has become influential to an extent where it can change the industry if people who are running it want to. Just my 2 cents

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Oh and i typed all this from my phone so apologies for any typos

 

[haroonshaikh]

But things have to start someday. If AMD starts selling tomorrow then maybe 2-4 years down the line, people would eventually start embracing them. But someone needs to take the initiative...

 

[SohaibArif]

Thanks sohaib for directing my attention to this thread...now let me pitch my story here regarding amd's predence in pakistan.
Around 6 to 7 months back i was contacted by AMD themselves with the aim to introduce their lineup of processors in pakistan. They wanted me to be the sole distributor of AMD processors and break intel's monopoly. Even though i did share their enthusiasm in regards to bringing amd here, i did some research of local market before accepting this lucrative offer.
I started discussing with every customer who came to me about their opinion on AMD processors and believe it or not...majority of them instantly used to say...''no no no AMD processors are shit because they heat up a lot..dont u remember? Thats why AMD stopped their operations here because their products were so shit...so why wud u wanna introduce AMD here all over again?'' Even if i would try to educate them that the overheating issue was a thing of the past and now their processors dont face any issues..the customers still didnt show any interest. Only people whp stayed up to date on technology and knew about AMD's new lineup gave some positive feedback. Then i turned towards our trusty, knowledgable shopkeepers...and asked thrm if they would be interested in selling AMD...they unfortunately said the same thing that processors heat up and RMA rate is too high so AMD will NOT work in Pakistan (retailers hate RMA's).

I discussed this issue with the AMD rep and we even thought of doing a lot of marketing to educate people on AMD's products but that presented another challenge. In order to market at such a huge scale, it meant investing a lot of money which frankly speaking i wasnt ready or interested in doing because all those Intel promotions and conferences you see or read about....are financed by Intel themselves..NOT the distributor. Even if AMD did decide to finance the marketing campaign...the main hurdle which atleast i couldnt think of how to overcome was convincing the shop keepers who would actually sell the product. A distributor can only work if retailers are ready and interested in selling the product he is distributing.

So keeping this whole situation in mind i had to reject AMD's offer...even though i myself wanted to accept it...i couldnt due to our typical mentality shop keepers and users as well who rely on getting their tech updates from the same shop keepers. Main problem is lack of education and knowledge and until that is fixed...i dont see AMD coming to pak anytime soon.

Oh and its not that they only approached me...IMX is a very small distributor compared to others here in pak but even the bigger guys refused to sign on with AMD because of this same issue. So thats the story and im sorry to say...but you guys gotta live with it.

I used to love coming to PG because it was all about learning back in the day...that elements gone now and if you guys want to change the pakistani computer industry...i think u have a platform which you can use. Pak gamers has become influential to an extent where it can change the industry if people who are running it want to. Just my 2 cents

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Oh and i typed all this from my phone so apologies for any typos

Thanks for the quick reply.
Did AMD not even consider a soft launch without local warranty support instead of bring it to the whole market?
Then rely on word of mouth advertizing.

I definitely agree a full launch, like the one you mentioned, will fail for any such product.

 

[SohaibArif]

Also I think this needs to become a case study in marketing books as a huge Public Relations disaster.

 

[iameXtreme]

They wouldnt mind an unofficial launch but just think about it...if we sell a processor with NO warranty like you suggest...whos gonna buy em? Warranty is the main factor that decides if a product is a hit or fail in the market. And the second draw back of unofficial small scale launch is the avilability of motherboards...how many motherboard companies would be interested in selling 30 to 40 pieces on a test basis and then also have to deal with RMA for that small quantity. Motherboard manufacturers also want that the distributor orders atleast a 200 pieces (mid to high end) and thousands (low end) every month....only then they can justify the whole operation.

So the only suitable way to go with this is a full scale country wide launch...but unfortunately majority of users arent ready to accept it

 

[abobobilly]

The only reason people of Pakistan don't get better products is because THEY DONT DESERVE IT. Yeah, thats what i said. SUE ME.

They don't deserve it because Majority (like MAJOR majority) still has a retarded mind set which may annoy the knowledgeable, but to them its "Final".

Just like people here still prefer Honda bikes -- Because Honda is Honda and everything else is Shit because its Chinese -- they tend to favor Intel Processors over others because -- Intel is Intel and everything else is Shit because its chinese. Don't believe me? Well, the small study mentioned by our dear iamextreme proves it right. If that isn't enough, just go out and ask a General consumer what he thinks about it.

And you'll be surprised to hear that this mentality is not just limited to Average consumer. Even the most literate ones also have this psychology. I'll refrain from taking any names but you can see dozens of examples here at PakGamers, or other forums for that matter.

Now, thats one side of the story.

The other side ... is AMD ITSELF. Not the brand - the company. If should focus on capturing third world countries' markets because in the end, the smallest of people can be the champion. Meaning, these countries can prove to be the most revenue making place for such countries.

Unfortunately, AMD let the window pass and Intel took advantage of that, which gave them a competitive advantage. Their products are good example of WHY, but their marketing is ever better example of how a Giant takes over a whole industry and may create a monopoly.


So what they should do?
Well, I think they should try to be small scale and take the first step of establishing an Official Office in Pakistan. Start from enthusiasts, giving them low cost solutions, keeping their profit margins to minimum (you know, to penetrate the market). Give warranties and earn customer trust. Focus on Media Oriented PCs (for movie fanatics etc) for minimum cost.

Use platforms like PakGamers or others to preach about their products and attract more customers. Word to mouth will also help, provided their products are upto the marK,which definitely are in low to mid range market segment. (Their new APU line up for example)

SO MUCH CAN BE DONE.​

But apparently AMD is not serious about doing it. And i consider MSI to be on the same level of mentality.

 

[hamidkhatri]

[MENTION=8060]abobobilly[/MENTION] what u meant by ' msi on the same level of mentality' ?


Sent from my LG-E720 using Tapatalk 2

 

[abobobilly]

[MENTION=8060]abobobilly[/MENTION] what u meant by ' msi on the same level of mentality' ?

• Non serious about taking any "major" steps to penetrate a market.
• Still focusing on "profits" instead of "making a place" first.
• Relying on only one channel i.e. Distributors

I am not at all saying that I (as an individual) can think better or even broader than either of the corporation. But these corporations are mainly here to make money and thats where their primary focus always remains. Some companies value customer relation highly, but these corporations only (ab)use it to make them look better infront of whole world (or the investors) ... which enables them to place themselves strategically in a dominant position sometimes.

 

[ali tayyab]

Pakistani direct to consumer market is very small. Most items are sold through govt. or private contracts. THe former specifically demand that the processor be intel and there is not much you, i or anyone else can really do much about that. As for private contracts, our univ. just bought around 300 computers and again all of them are Intel based system, though they had an option to get AMD APUs but decided against it as they were relatively more expensive as compared to the Core i3s they got and they really did not care about igpu performance as it does not really feature.

Dealing with a teeny market, with a strong mindset for a company that needed to borrow 500 million just a couple of weeks to keep things afloat is not lucrative. PG, despite its size, is not large enough to create ripples in the consumer market arena. Remember the price Easetec set for its 280? they could not have cared less if we bickered about it here, only when it was posted on their FB page did they reset the price down to a more reasonable level as it has a larger public presence.

I see this topic as redundant on PG. AMD is not going to read this (on PG) and jump in. AMD is not run by Pervaiz Musharraf.

If you want AMD, get a business plan, invest, get AMDs franchise. Then be prepared to loose money for ages and hope that either Intel implodes, or AMD somehow comes up with this magical processor (like the AMDx64) that is cheap and as good as Intel when it comes to IPC. AMD itself doesnt see this happening (no FX steamroller for all of 2014), so why should anyone else see any different

 

[abobobilly]

[MENTION=4486]ali tayyab[/MENTION]! Intel is highly established in Pakistan, and quite easily have a monopoly in the industry as a whole. This alone is enough to explain the reason why Govt decided to choose Intel over any other option available in market. Average consumer in Pakistan don't even know what iGPU or APU, where most still think highly of i3 or i5 ... even disregarding the generation difference between different i3s (First gen i3 vs. Sandy vs. Ivy for example)

Anyway, you definitely have a strong point about the floating business of AMD so it makes sense why they are not taking any "agressive/risky" step. Trying to survive maybe. And considering these companies are meant primarily to be money suckers, they will most certainly target average consumers which unfortunately (or furtunately!?) are extremely large in size. Which makes smaller segments like PG (or Gamers in General, in Pakistan) almost completely irrelevant. And believe you me, this is exactly where they are going to take a major hit (if they continue the same business practice), because the smallest of stone can sometimes damages the most.

 

[SohaibArif]

The only reason people of Pakistan don't get better products is because THEY DONT DESERVE IT. Yeah, thats what i said. SUE ME.

They don't deserve it because Majority (like MAJOR majority) still has a retarded mind set which may annoy the knowledgeable, but to them its "Final".

This should be refuted with another case study but in Human Computer Interaction.
Xerox did a famous experiment where they asked two people to print 100 2 sided copies using a new machine. These people struggled quite a bit.
A famous video was made where their faces were not visible and shown to other people at Xerox and people made fun of those 2 people.
Turns out those 2 people were one of the founding fathers of AI, Alan Newell and the other person was computational linguist Ron Kaplan.
Where the Big Green Copier Button Came From | A Thinking Person, a.k.a. Cogit8R
So it was the machine's fault not the people's.

So the thing is, it is AMD's fault, not the shopkeepers or the users. Users in any country will hold you responsible for any mistake unless you prove you have improved.
Word of mouth should help with that.

The "shopkeepers" and distributors' fault is that they either don't have proper education of marketing and buisness or fail to apply it.
The guy running Nirala sweets applied his MBA to an almost failed sweet shop and turned it into a huge business. Did you even know it existed before the 1940s?

 

[iameXtreme]

Abobo i would disagree with you on this smallest stone regard....in case of sales..especially where a company is already selling millions of units right across the border (india and well i wont even talk about chinas market) they kind of expect the same from you as well when you pitch the idea of penetrating the market. Every manufacturers first question to me is when im looking for a distribution: whats the monthly quantity you can pick from us? And if you have a 100 units in mind...uve already lost their interest. They just cant be bothered to spend money and send a 100 pieces to you every month whereas the country right next to you is picking up 1000 pieces from them at the same time. Pakistan is a small market..especially when it comes to enthusiast products...for any company to start here and create a market share...would have to target entry level users (the masses) rather than enthusiasts. Unfortunately pakistans market is budget focused..people are on a tight budget and looking for the cheapest way out...so if you can capture that market...well you're golden. But then that market is also not educated or well informed to give the new company a try especially when theyve messed up so badly in the past

 

[abobobilly]

This should be refuted with another case study but in Human Computer Interaction.

That point was actually directly related to the topic at hand. There are two sides to every story.

So the thing is, it is AMD's fault, not the shopkeepers or the users. Users in any country will hold you responsible for any mistake unless you prove you have improved.

Like i mentioned, there are two sides to every story.

How i think its AMD's fault, is already mentioned in my previous post. But thats just how i have observed & think.

AMD (like alitayyab above mentions) might be in surviving stage which might be the reason of not paying attention to any potentially bigger markets (with bigger risks ofcourse).

Don't forget that they will be dealing with non tech savy people so its a 10x harder job for them to cater for such a market where an average consumer's mind is stuck up in either Honda, Hooting (*wink wink), or Himself.

The point is, its not going to happen unless both parties try.

Word of mouth should help with that.

And who do you think will be able to do it better? The "Average consumer" who knows nothing about computers, or the "enthusiasts" who live and die with computers? (enthusiasts don't have to be the rich but with more rational mind & experience)

... which explains my point about "starting small" and to target that segment of market who "knows" about the stuff the would bring in.

The "shopkeepers" and distributors' fault is that they either don't have proper education of marketing and buisness or fail to apply it.

I don't blame them. In the economy as ours, i wouldn't wana waste my money on "experiments".

The guy running Nirala sweets applied his MBA to an almost failed sweet shop and turned it into a huge business. Did you even know it existed before the 1940s?

Prime Example of how business can improve with right people, skills and marketing.

If a company has a good product(s) -- which AMD do have -- it won't have to try hard to make a presence. But a step needs to be taken by themselves, which they refuse to take.

 

[abobobilly]

Abobo i would disagree with you on this smallest stone regard....in case of sales..especially where a company is already selling millions of units right across the border (india and well i wont even talk about chinas market) they kind of expect the same from you as well when you pitch the idea of penetrating the market.Every manufacturers first question to me is when im looking for a distribution: whats the monthly quantity you can pick from us? And if you have a 100 units in mind...uve already lost their interest. They just cant be bothered to spend money and send a 100 pieces to you every month whereas the country right next to you is picking up 1000 pieces from them at the same time. Pakistan is a small market..especially when it comes to enthusiast products...for any company to start here and create a market share...would have to target entry level users (the masses) rather than enthusiasts. Unfortunately pakistans market is budget focused..people are on a tight budget and looking for the cheapest way out...so if you can capture that market...well you're golden. But then that market is also not educated or well informed to give the new company a try especially when theyve messed up so badly in the past

I don't mind your disagreement. But apparently you are also sharing the same sentiments of these companies. Just like 2 fingers aren't of same size, two neighbors need not be. Their mistake probably (or most certainly) is that they are wrongly assessing the market segments of Pakistan, and thinking that "Asian" segment as a whole ... to be the same. (again, i don't blame them for that since they might have to incur more costs or bear more risks if they do that)

Pakistan can potentially be a MAJOR market for AMD. An example of Intel's presence here can be self explanatory. You must've meant that Pakistan is a smaller market Relatively ... than India or China etc. Did anyone ever thought that Pakistan would become one of the biggest market for Mobile phone consumers, Where smartphones are slowly penetrating the market at a mind boggling faster rate? You get the point right?

Budget oriented consumers? Yes. Is Intel budget oriented? No let me rephrase that question. CAN Intel be more budget oriented as compared to AMD? NOW consider the "budget oriented consumers" and you'll get your answer. That is, they aren't doing ANYTHING right (when we are talking about IT related products). Certain Intel products can be more expensive at the end of the day than AMD's offerings in similar price brackets.

Rest i agree about the market, or the industry as a whole being not educated.

 

[rhyansy]

Hi Abobobilly, first of all, I am the official rep of MSI for the whole Pan India region, which includes PK, NP, LK, BD and IN. I will explain first that MSI is a small player in the IT business, and to survive, the strategy the company focus is just the gaming segment. Our products are limited to this area, even though we have a full range from high-end to low-end gaming laptops.

Limited to this company strategy, as you can see from the BIG market I handle, sadly only NP and LK have some significant market for MSI Gaming, particularly our gaming notebooks. I have been working really hard the past few months to introduce MSI Gaming laptops to PK disty and dealers, tried any possible way to promote, but to no avail until now. We do not want to rely on one channel only, but the bigger problem is, not one of them would like to take the initiative to try. MSI, with its small scale, cannot just open a shop there, it just doesn't make sense if no one even bother to believe in us.

Saying a "major" step to penetrate is so easy, but how do we do it while convincing the company bosses, the distys and dealers that it will work? Profit is one thing, but survival is another. MSI was never in a dominant position because of our size. I will share that in Nepal, we are very happy to cater to about 10 gaming laptops a month as long as we can serve those happy gamers. It's the same with PK, we do not intend to get a big chuck of the market to be profitable, but we also want to serve those who believe in us.

Hope I can shed some light if you were in my shoes.

• Non serious about taking any "major" steps to penetrate a market.
• Still focusing on "profits" instead of "making a place" first.
• Relying on only one channel i.e. Distributors

I am not at all saying that I (as an individual) can think better or even broader than either of the corporation. But these corporations are mainly here to make money and thats where their primary focus always remains. Some companies value customer relation highly, but these corporations only (ab)use it to make them look better infront of whole world (or the investors) ... which enables them to place themselves strategically in a dominant position sometimes.

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One other thing, I have at times wanted to give up in PK already. But still, I have some hope left yet that it will work. Cheers man!

 

[StrikerX]

Hi Abobobilly, first of all, I am the official rep of MSI for the whole Pan India region, which includes PK, NP, LK, BD and IN. I will explain first that MSI is a small player in the IT business, and to survive, the strategy the company focus is just the gaming segment. Our products are limited to this area, even though we have a full range from high-end to low-end gaming laptops.

Limited to this company strategy, as you can see from the BIG market I handle, sadly only NP and LK have some significant market for MSI Gaming, particularly our gaming notebooks. I have been working really hard the past few months to introduce MSI Gaming laptops to PK disty and dealers, tried any possible way to promote, but to no avail until now. We do not want to rely on one channel only, but the bigger problem is, not one of them would like to take the initiative to try. MSI, with its small scale, cannot just open a shop there, it just doesn't make sense if no one even bother to believe in us.

Saying a "major" step to penetrate is so easy, but how do we do it while convincing the company bosses, the distys and dealers that it will work? Profit is one thing, but survival is another. MSI was never in a dominant position because of our size. I will share that in Nepal, we are very happy to cater to about 10 gaming laptops a month as long as we can serve those happy gamers. It's the same with PK, we do not intend to get a big chuck of the market to be profitable, but we also want to serve those who believe in us.

Hope I can shed some light if you were in my shoes.



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One other thing, I have at times wanted to give up in PK already. But still, I have some hope left yet that it will work. Cheers man!

What price bracket are you trying to target? The laptops that sell the most here cost around about $400-600.