MULTI [OT] Metro Exodus | Journey Beyond

[JANARIOO]

 

[iampasha]

[MENTION=26]Chandoo[/MENTION] [MENTION=11352]Necrokiller[/MENTION] Got the good ending in first try...and thats why you sneak folks It all payed off in the end. Satisfied with the ending, also saw the bad ending on YouTube. Depressing AF honestly.

Overall, easily the best game in the series. The Dead City chapter was the best of the bunch..very similar feeling of prequels..great atmosphere.

A solid 8.5 from me.

 

[Chandoo]

@Chandoo @Necrokiller Got the good ending in first try...and thats why you sneak folks It all payed off in the end. Satisfied with the ending, also saw the bad ending on YouTube. Depressing AF honestly.

Overall, easily the best game in the series. The Dead City chapter was the best of the bunch..very similar feeling of prequels..great atmosphere.

A solid 8.5 from me.

Agreed. Dead City was also my favorite part of the game.

 

[Necrokiller]

"Bad" ending is the better Metro ending...and the last level was so good. Yes, Exodus is the best one in the series.

I reallllyy wana start my Ranger Hardcore run but the game is still fresh in my mind.

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[iampasha]

Yup gonna replay it on highest difficulty and will try to be more aggressive to get the bad ending maybe 12 months down down the road..let's see

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[Necrokiller]

Yup gonna replay it on highest difficulty and will try to be more aggressive to get the bad ending maybe 12 months down down the road..let's see

Sent from my Android

Also gonna make that replay with RTX. The lighting is just on another level.

 

[Chandoo]

^ I'll be honest, it just looks like a different lighting profile. I don't see any earth shattering improvements with RTX, it looks like a re shade preset, color grading changes etc in those screens at least.

 

[Necrokiller]

^ I'll be honest, it just looks like a different lighting profile. it looks like a re shade preset, color grading changes etc in those screens at least.

You're absolutely right. It is a different lighting profile. One that calculates light bounces and shadows much more accurately than current rasterization methods are capable of.

Faked lighting and shadowing are gone, everything looks right, but more than that, combined with the artistry in the visuals and the technology, ray tracing provides some simply spectacular 'next level' moments.

Gone are any those inaccurate, sometimes unsightly compromises made for performance and scalability reasons, as the ray traced GI from the sun offers a holistic solution instead of 'faked' effects like screen-space ambient occlusion.

Ray tracing in Metro Exodus is effectively simulating light, instead of trying to emulate how it acts.

I wish I could simply reshade this lighting model in all games :hah:

 

[Chandoo]

Just saying what I'm seeing based on the screen provided above. It just looks like a different lighting profile, but nothing that's any better or worse.

I'm sure there are better examples to highlight it elsewhere. But for the examples above, the simple 'fakery' of the traditional lighting model we see in games seems to look a'ight.

 

[Necrokiller]

Just saying what I'm seeing based on the screen provided above. It just looks like a different lighting profile, but nothing that's any better or worse.

I'm sure there are better examples to highlight it elsewhere. But for the examples above, the simple 'fakery' of the traditional lighting model we see in games seems to look a'ight.

:laugh1:

I can't take a single word written in this post or the previous one seriously anymore. Anyone who has even a basic understanding of how lighting works in games wouldn't reduce whats shown in those screens as "reshade presets" or "color grading".


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[Chandoo]

-_-

Remove the labels, flip them around a bit and then ask a random person to tell which is which and I'm sure the responses will be 50 50 for this screen.

There are better examples of ray tracing, the above screens aren't it.

 

[Necrokiller]

Please show us better examples and what exactly makes them better.

Also, we're gonna judge technical graphics based on what "random people" think? Lol

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[Chandoo]

1. IMO, Battlefield V


2. You're missing the entire point of my posts, based on the screens above it just looks like we're seeing 2 different takes on lighting on some areas, the RTX = On does not look like a generational leap or 'a game changer' or insert any buzz word. If you remove the labels and show them to random people, 5 out of 10 will probably not even know which one has RTX on and which one doesn't.

I'm not debating the merits of RTX on a technical level. I'm saying the implementation in the above shots doesn't look any-more impressive than RTX off.

 

[Necrokiller]

1. How is it better? Why are current "fakery" methods not good enough?

2. Honestly I don't think you understand how GI works. That's why you can't tell how one is better than the other. Anyone who doesn't know about reflections would probably not find any difference in BF V either. Which brings me to my last point...

3. .....your entire argument is "50% of random people" will not notice the difference. Average joe as a judge is poor argument. Which is kinda hilarious because not even 0.5% of random people can tell differences between base console and mid-gen version pixel counts or texture filtering which you call huge upgrades. Kind of just shows you're downplaying it for the sake of it.

 

[Chandoo]

I think you're making it sound like much more of an issue then I intended lol.

1. How is it better? Why are current "fakery" methods not good enough?

Sure, in general I would say developers have been doing a pretty good job so far and it'll probably be a few years before we see actual transformative ray-traced experiences.

As for BFV, based on the stuff available (like DF etc) things like reflection accuracy etc looks better in BFV than anything I've seen for Metro online

2. Honestly I don't think you understand how GI works. That's why you can't tell how one is better than the other. Anyone who doesn't know about reflections would probably not find any difference in BF V either. Which brings me to my last point...

I understand how GI works, the picture inside the cabin and the one I posted above show more accurate GI on the ground compared to the harsher one in the RTX off, but again, what I'm saying is it doesn't show a big difference at all and both look equally good in their own right.

3. .....your entire argument is "50% of random people" will not notice the difference. Average joe as a judge is poor argument. Which is kinda hilarious because not even 0.5% of random people can tell differences between base console and mid-gen version pixel counts or texture filtering which you call huge upgrades. Kind of just shows you're downplaying it for the sake of it.​

When I say random people, I don't necessary mean random people off the street lol, I'm adding casually enthusiastic gamers as well. And once again, I am not downplaying RTX. My posts have been pretty clear that I'm strictly talking about the examples above.

 

[Necrokiller]

I think you're making it sound like much more of an issue then I intended lol.

I think its a serious issue when someone who follows game tech compares ray-traced GI to color grading and reshade lol

As for BFV, based on the stuff available (like DF etc) things like reflection accuracy etc looks better in BFV than anything I've seen for Metro online

There is no "etc". BFV is only using ray tracing for reflections and that's it. Both games are excellent, however, I find the use case in Metro more impressive.

Every gen developers (including 4A Games) are advancing game engines and faking effects to varying degrees to achieve exactly what 4A Games have done today with ray tracing in Exodus or DICE with BFV. You also don't realize that faking these effects is considerably more work for developers and limits the game by design. The fact that Metro has huge open levels with a fully dynamic ToD system makes it even more impressive.

I understand how GI works, the picture inside the cabin and the one I posted above show more accurate GI on the ground compared to the harsher one in the RTX off, but again, what I'm saying is it doesn't show a big difference at all and both look equally good in their own right.

This is what I fail to understand. You just debated how going from Medium to High changes the entire world lighting model but find RTX - the biggest advancement that completely changes the world lighting model - to be neither better or worse. I think you convince yourself that any tech you won't be adopting yourself is worthless regardless of its merits lol

When I say random people, I don't necessary mean random people off the street lol, I'm adding casually enthusiastic gamers as well.

Sounds like an oxymoron lol
And those people are more likely to notice what exactly? Pixel count, better shadows and anistropic filtering? Come on now, get real lol

 

[Journeys End]

^ I'll be honest, it just looks like a different lighting profile. I don't see any earth shattering improvements with RTX, it looks like a re shade preset, color grading changes etc in those screens at least.

it looks incredible in motion as this game has a dynamic day n nite cycle. some indoors areas look totally revamped. it can also enhance stealth mechanics as light is realistically filling the environment and it's easier to spot a hidden path.

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[Chandoo]

I think its a serious issue when someone who follows game tech compares ray-traced GI to color grading and reshade lol

I think it's a more serious issue that you're getting so offended by someone's opinion based on the visuals at present in the examples you posted lol

gaming technology = serious business.

This is what I fail to understand. You just debated how going from Medium to High changes the entire world lighting model but find RTX - the biggest advancement that completely changes the world lighting model - to be neither better or worse. I think you convince yourself that any tech you won't be adopting yourself is worthless regardless of its merits lol

And yet again you're either not reading what I'm posting or deliberately going at it because how dare chandoo said something bad about 4A

I said they don't look better or worse, they look like different implementations. Between High and Medium (and between Ultra and High as you said earlier), more common visual effects like AO, shadows, particles and shader quality get omitted or taken out entirely, that's more visibly noticeable if you're running around the same area with it on High once and then on Medium again.

And those people are more likely to notice what exactly? Pixel count, better shadows and anistropic filtering? Come on now, get real lol

there's no oxymoron, it's almost a fact. Why do you think all the developers/publishers focus on resolution first ? that kind of thing is more easily visible and sells more.

it looks incredible in motion as this game has a dynamic day n nite cycle. some indoors areas look totally revamped. it can also enhance stealth mechanics as light is realistically filling the environment and it's easier to spot a hidden path.

I bet it does look great in motion, what necrokiller is getting bent over on is that i 'offended' metro in the first place even though im the same sentence i also said there are probably other better examples, besides these pictures :laugh1:

 

[Necrokiller]

How can someone take you seriously when you throw around words you don't even fully understand :laugh1:

Between High and Medium (and between Ultra and High as you said earlier), more common visual effects like AO, shadows, particles and shader quality get omitted or taken out entirely, that's more visibly noticeable if you're running around the same area with it on High once and then on Medium again.

GI affects AO, PBR, indirect shadows and shader quality as well. Ab koi knowledge increase bhi kare aapki to aap mind kar jaate ho :laugh1:

I think experts calling 4A Engine's advancements "game changing" has really not gone down well Chandoo. Relax bro, your fav engine will get there too. Eventually.

there's no oxymoron, it's almost a fact. Why do you think all the developers/publishers focus on resolution first ? that kind of thing is more easily visible and sells more.

Because thats the only thing that can be slightly improved without making the game a slideshow. If they actually marketed pixel counts you would have a point. Doesn't mean the "casual enthusiast" has magnifying glasses built into their eye balls or they'd losing sleep over differences between 1440p and 1620p or *insert random pixel count here* :laugh1:

 

[CerebralTiger]

Meanwhile, Metro Exodus' platinum trophy is among the easiest lol. 4/10 without the exploit lol. For a real challenge, I'll stick to that other game

http://www.powerpyx.com/metro-exodus-trophy-guide-roadmap/

I don't see any earth shattering improvements with RTX

Well, that's because there isn't anything earth shattering about ray traced lighting on a pure visual level. It's a more physically correct representation of lighting, one that makes the life of an environment artist a lot easier. It's a technological advancement, and the results are more realistic. Does it alter the artistic representation of a game? No, a bad looking game will still look bad, and vice versa. In fact, things like baked GI/light probes will still be used in situations where the dev wants artistic control over how lighting works in a particular scene.

Personally, I wouldn't want ray traced lighting to trickle down to the console space until hardware is powerful enough to make its inclusion a trivial matter. I'm more than happy with the results of existing GI solutions and would rather like to see the performance budget spent towards other advancements, such as increased world interactivity, more complex AI, more complex shaders etc.