Who is supreme? Man or Woman ? or are they equal?

[Crow]

In my case, I don't compromise on my principles offline and online.

that's good for you, but i imagine a lot of people do, because if not, why don't i come across any of this in real life with either the burger or non-burger crowd? super mysterious

 

[abcd]

Equality of opportunity for men and women in every field is an idealistic notion, not a practically viable one. This notion may work for some nations but not for every nation.

Consider Pakistani military as an analogy. As per your mindset, Pakistani men and women should have equal opportunity for enrollment in all positions of the military. However, this is practically (not) a feasible policy due to multiple factors including tedious fitness requirements for many positions and cultural/religious sensitivities. Compromise on these factors is not recommended to ensure high standards of the Pakistani military.

My perception is that women in Pakistan should have the right to get education and pursue careers of their own choice but only those positions should be off-limits to them for which they are not biologically able and are not permitted as per religious sensitivities. The remainder still leaves Pakistani women with lot of opportunities and positions to compete for and prove their worth. This is practically sound policy for empowerment of women in an Islamic society. In urban sectors and/or educated segment, Pakistani women do enjoy equality of opportunities in many aspects of life in current times.

As long as you acknowledge the general principle of equality of opportunity and the fact that not everything is perfect in our society, I largely agree with your post. There will always be exceptions (the military as you pointed out) but the general principle should be followed in most areas (which in my opinion atleast does not happen in our society).

who arguing about existence of these barriers , here i am trying to indicate economic barrier instead of cultural barrier , and here you are mixing two entirely different things , first culture barriers are man made , where economic barrier contain different factors . Most of women whom don't get education equally to male is bec of economic barrier not bec of cultural barrier (as i mention up there) , and it also the answer of that question , that why women get more education at DEVELOPED countries (as answer in its title by it self) as compare to third world countries (bec yahan 2 wakt ki roti k chakar main hi life puri ho jati hay , who cares about education , people even here don't care about career , even now career thing is also just RICH boys/girls play field , bakhi log to naukrian hi kartay hain bhai) , actually you guyz are considering this world as utopia , which its not , its all about survival and make this survival better and better , that's it , morality is nothing here any more (and education is main pillar of it) .

Don't agree with you. Economic barriers are equal for both genders, cultural barriers are not. The literacy rate in Pakistan is heavily skewed towards males. Economic barriers can explain a low literacy rate, they can't explain a skewed one.

 

[Blastwave]

that's good for you, but i imagine a lot of people do, because if not, why don't i come across any of this in real life with either the burger or non-burger crowd? super mysterious

eda tu burger sala

 

[Crow]

#shamefulmailaburgerconfessions

 

[RAJNI]

WOMEN EMPOWERMENT > Jai Ho <

 

[maxold90]

Don't agree with you. Economic barriers are equal for both genders, cultural barriers are not. The literacy rate in Pakistan is heavily skewed towards males. Economic barriers can explain a low literacy rate, they can't explain a skewed one.

as i said its about survival , and even human and all other species evolved just because to survive in there environment , and that's what i am saying , as women are not obligate to get earning , but men are , and if parents don't have much resources then they compromise on female education , because she may survive without better education and job , but male cant survive without it . if society redefines it rules by obligate women to keep earning same as men , then i believe this rule will gonna change as well .

But again what is society , if you say so that society is man made and they are stopping women , then you need consider the facts as well , if we assume that society obligate women to get earning equally like men , do you like to see those women to work as loader , medical rep , courier girl , truck driver , logistic officer . No , and its because of the respect of female gender (and there physical capability) , and just to keep up that respect , the responsibility of earning and all other hard task men took , which make his role superior in society . And that is also the rule which is define in religion as well define by nature it self .

even people here complain about maids , that there men are forcefully obligate them to work as maid . Thing is all that we never been satisfied with our surroundings , if man let woman to do work , then society is like , hes forcing her to earn money .

If some female doing job to run her home its an honor , if all men do the same every day then its there obligation , there ain't equality in judgment criteria even , if you are taking one perspective of the thing then you got to take another as well .

 

[shahzadfootball]

A woman in Pakistan gets medical treatment so she can transition into a he.Same place jahan log baat baat par religion ko ley atay hain.

 

[Fkhan]

Woman may work even better than man at some places but the only problem is, then she will not be able to sleep at night. It is proven research that woman stress level after job is 2 times that of average man, and when she gets to home, her stress level shoots even 4 times higher. Evidentially, woman mind works all the time whereas man can switch off his brain activities on stress points temporarily when he gets to home (trying to forget all worries); whereas Woman cant forget. When woman is in stress her brain area associated with memories is flood with blood causing even remembering all the bad things (all good things will have the blind spot that time; you can certainly relate to that during verbal altercations with any woman whether mother or GF or who-not). According to recent studies and surveys on global level, this is causing bigger ratio of unsuccessful marriages and bigger ratio of people not getting married (today the proportion of unmarried people is 2 times as that of 1950s).
We must accept that man and woman are different and it is not only because of culture (although role of culture cant be ruled out); even their brains work in different ways. I don’t know why nobody took serious of my comment that woman can work only 25 days a month efficiently (because of about 6 days period cycle causing severe pain, irritation and stress). The hormone that cause stress in woman is Oxytocin , it is the same hormone which cause sleepiness in man. I can write pages on chemical differences in brain function of man and woman, but that will be utterly boring and academic. It has only begets more problems in Scandivian countries where gender difference was eradicated at the cost of gender blindness.
(Although all the recent studies will support my afore-text, but I recommend reading all time best seller book MAN ARE FROM MARS, WOMAN FROM VENUS and video lectures of John Gray)

 

[Crow]

Woman may work even better than man at some places but the only problem is, then she will not be able to sleep at night. It is proven research that woman stress level after job is 2 times that of average man, and when she gets to home, her stress level shoots even 4 times higher.

where are these scientific studies?

Evidentially, woman mind works all the time whereas man can switch off his brain activities on stress points

how do you know? link some this of highly dubious "research" study to back up your points please.

When woman is in stress her brain area associated with memories is flood with blood causing even remembering all the bad things

???????

According to recent studies and surveys on global level, this is causing bigger ratio of unsuccessful marriages and bigger ratio of people not getting married (today the proportion of unmarried people is 2 times as that of 1950s).

WHAT RECENT STUDIES

I can write pages on chemical differences in brain function of man and woman, but that will be utterly boring and academic.

no, please do

(Although all the recent studies will support my afore-text

which would mean you wouldn't mind linking these studies, especially since you have the penchant for being so academic.

 

[Fkhan]

[MENTION=48]Crow[/MENTION], I just mentioned the reference at post script of my previous comment, The 2 best selling books on this topic are especially MAN ARE FROM MARs , WOMAN FROM VENUS and VENUS ON FIRE- MARS ON ICE; HORMONAL BALANCE. For the very easy short cut you can check out John Gray video lecture ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NZcSJyGrd-s ) .
Once again , with utmost respect for females, I am reiterating , man and woman have equal marks., Things at which woman are good , men aren't n vice versa. My only argument is that they are different and should be honored as such.

- - - Updated - - -

 

[Hassan Aftab]

A woman in Pakistan gets medical treatment so she can transition into a he.Same place jahan log baat baat par religion ko ley atay hain.

I didn't quite understand the relevance of your comment. Could you please elaborate that?

 

[shahzadfootball]

I didn't quite understand the relevance of your comment. Could you please elaborate that?

The point is that people keep bringing religion into this argument that according to this religion ,Men are more supreme . So I was stating how ironic it is to see the same people do so unfaithful things.

 

[LeGenD123]

The point is that people keep bringing religion into this argument that according to this religion ,Men are more supreme . So I was stating how ironic it is to see the same people do so unfaithful things.

Men (are) superior to women in capabilities holistically, you have a problem with human biological ground realities? Don't blame religion for this biological distinction.

If you are not comfortable with using the word "superiority" in this matter at personal capacity, you can use the word "different" instead. However, don't expect everybody to shy away from using the word "superiority" about this matter just to appease some Feminists. I won't.

 

[Crow]

^ that's because you have been brain-washed by religious dogma and your own blind prejudices. i'm not even sure if this has anything to do with feminism, this is just being a decent human being. not a difficult feat to achieve.

 

[LeGenD123]

^ that's because you have been brain-washed by religious dogma and your own blind prejudices. i'm not even sure if this has anything to do with feminism, this is just being a decent human being. not a difficult feat to achieve.

No, I am being realistic but problem with proponents of "equality of the sexes" is that they are not being realistic in their judgments.

Let us compare two elements: Steel and Wood. Now, both elements are important and beneficial but Steel > Wood. This is the situation of Men and Women as well.

In the context of basic human rights, Men and Women can have equality. I have covered this part earlier in post # 95.

However, in the context of capabilities, Men are more capable or superior to Women holistically as pointed out in this thread earlier with reasonable examples. Check posts # 95, 115, and 118 for details. Fact is that men can be good in all roles, however, women cannot be as good as men in every role.

Men and women are (not) equal biologically and this influences their capabilities holistically.

 

[Hassan Aftab]

The point is that people keep bringing religion into this argument that according to this religion ,Men are more supreme . So I was stating how ironic it is to see the same people do so unfaithful things.

Forgive me, I honestly am not getting what you are hinting at. Are you criticizing the woman that goes on and gets that treatment to achieve that 'superiority' or the silence that follows such practices? It is man who advocates man's own 'superiority'; not the woman, correct? So, how do you mean it is ironic?

 

[Crow]

Men and women are (not) equal biologically and this influences their capabilities holistically.

when you're talking in terms of sociology, equal means equal opportunity (i.e. right to own property, travel independently, vote, testify in court, drive, etc), not biological hindrances. this is the point where things such as "women cannot reason logically" and "women are over-emotional and prone to impulsive decision-making" come into play, because these are reasons often given by people who enforce institutionalized patriarchy. i don't disagree with your points necessarily, as much as i think it is encouraging the wrong kind of sexism. and the fact that this sort of flies under everyone's radar is sort of tragic also, tbh.

you wouldn't hire a woman at a coal mine or a construction site or an oil rig, but this is a slippery slope and there is no definitive line at which you start to think maybe this is veering into oppressive bullshit territory. after all, what difference there is between not letting a woman work a technical job vs. not letting women drive. so i think at this point the egalitarian perspective is OK.

Fact is that men can be good in all roles, however, women cannot be as good as men in every role.

opinion =/= fact.

 

[LeGenD123]

when you're talking in terms of sociology, equal means equal opportunity (i.e. right to own property, travel independently, vote, testify in court, drive, etc), not biological hindrances. this is the point where things such as "women cannot reason logically" and "women are over-emotional and prone to impulsive decision-making" come into play, because these are reasons often given by people who enforce institutionalized patriarchy. i don't disagree with your points necessarily, as much as i think it is encouraging the wrong kind of sexism. and the fact that this sort of flies under everyone's radar is sort of tragic also, tbh.

you wouldn't hire a woman at a coal mine or a construction site or an oil rig, but this is a slippery slope and there is no definitive line at which you start to think maybe this is veering into oppressive bullshit territory. after all, what difference there is between not letting a woman work a technical job vs. not letting women drive. so i think at this point the egalitarian perspective is OK.

I have covered this part before:

Equality of opportunity for men and women in every field is an idealistic notion, not a practically viable one. This notion may work for some nations but not for every nation.

Consider Pakistani military as an analogy. As per your mindset, Pakistani men and women should have equal opportunity for enrollment in all positions of the military. However, this is practically (not) a feasible policy due to multiple factors including tedious fitness requirements for many positions and cultural/religious sensitivities. Compromise on these factors is not recommended to ensure high standards of the Pakistani military.

My perception is that women in Pakistan should have the right to get education and pursue careers of their own choice but only those positions should be off-limits to them for which they are not biologically able and are not permitted as per religious sensitivities. The remainder still leaves Pakistani women with lot of opportunities and positions to compete for and prove their worth. This is practically sound policy for empowerment of women in an Islamic society. In urban sectors and/or educated segment, Pakistani women do enjoy equality of opportunities in many aspects of life in current times.

&

Men and Women are important in their own ways. Issue arises with the man-made philosophy of "equality of the sexes." Nature have produced men and women differently and have granted each different strengths and these strengths create distinctions in their roles in a society.

Gender equality makes sense only in the context of basic human rights but not roles in the society. What are basic human rights?

1. The right to have education
2. The right to have cloths
3. The right to have a job or opportunities for earning for livelihood
4. The right to have shelter
5. The right to have food
6. The right to have protection against harm/external threats
7. The right to choose a partner for marriage
8. The right to have a choice in adhering to a faith

Now there are matters in which philosophy of "equality of the sexes" doesn't fits well such as fields/roles in a society that are more suitable for men then women:

1. Military
2. Mining
3. Space Exploration Industry
4. Firefighting
5. Undertaker
6. Security services
7. Leadership
8. Mechanics

Now their are also fields/roles which are arguably more suitable for women.

---

Even in nature, equality does not exists, diversity exists instead. Diversity is important for functioning of an eco-system. Similarly, it is important for functioning of a society.

--- ---

I understand the importance of granting women same rights as men in various matters but the Feminist philosophy of "equality of sexes" is flawed and not practical for all aspects of human roles. Practically, enforcing some distinction between men and women in societal roles is best for mankind. This is not sexism, this is about being realistic.

opinion =/= fact.

Here is an analogy:

Fire service strength and fitness tests relaxed to allow more women to become firefighters | Daily Mail Online

Despite Recruiting, Few Women Do Well in Firefighter Tests - NYTimes.com

You notice the problem in this case? Women are not as biologically capable for this role as men holistically.

Similarly, their are other roles in which men can/do better then women because of biological superiority.

REPEAT: Practically, enforcing some distinction between men and women in societal roles is best for mankind. This is not sexism, this is about being realistic.

 

[Photographer]

of course men are superior. if any man thinks differently then he's suffering from an inferiority complex or is influenced by feminists

 

[shahzadfootball]

of course men are superior. if any man thinks differently then he's suffering from an inferiority complex or is influenced by feminists

Photo please -_- didn't know you were a sexist too