PC Gamers Don't Need Vista or DX 10 Says Carmack

[Rebel640]

what the f*** does nasa has to do with anything

Read the previous posts again, you skippsed some lines,thats why you are asking this question with CENSORED LANGUAGE init.

(even though the time spent on a technology means nothing)

Atleast 50%

since you love the ctrl+v - ctrl+c key combinations for URLs, i'd like you to post some site link, referencing, that 50% of the people for sure know what's INSIDE their ps3s.

*weirdo* what does the defination of benchmarking have to do with anything?

again, you just forgot WHAT you said urself. read again, here's the quote from YOUR post, for reference.

And have you ever heard about something called benchmarking?

Well if you have nothing to say on a techincal discussuion and just keep on posting crazy talk, i have nothing to say.

This is NOT crazy talk, i'd just been debating over an issue where i think your info isn't THAT valid...finding it hard to believe. Not to mention I've been posting pretty consistantly WITHOUT bashing and calling someone's discussion crazy talk just caz I dont feel comfortable when they dont agree with me and counter back with valid arguments.

Hope to have a good reply this time.

 

[devilscallmedad]

The reason i am calling this crazy talk is because you are completly wriggling around the issue and just posting random unrelated stuff.

Issue 1. Cell took 9 years to develop
Wrong, work started in March 2001 ended mid 2005

Issue 2. PC gaming is very expensive.
Wrong, see my chart a system 3 times as powerful as the consoles at a cheaper price.

Issue 3. Cell ( and the 360 Xenos ) are superduper ultra computers which are out of this world.
Then what happened here
http://www.geekpatrol.ca/2006/11/playstation-3-performance/

The mighty cell was beaten by a Power Mac G5 1.6 GHZ???


Here is a similar discussion On AVSforums ( the home of techies and programmers )
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=758390

Here is a full review of the ps3 and 360 processors
http://dpad.gotfrag.com/portal/story/35372/?spage=1

Hell even Rapchik agrees, he's the only techie around

 

[Rebel640]

I'll make it short, have a closer lok at that 'home of techies & prgrmrs' and/or other tech sites. Its clearly stated and (commonly known) that the linux run on the PS3 is emulated, the OS is not allowed to use the hardware at the lowest level at all. The graphics capability is EMULATED entirely, the cell partially acts as teh graphics processor.

Also the linux OS is not ALLOWED at all to access and use teh cell SPEs. so basically the linux being run is more like linux running on teh PS3 thru a PS3-native VMware. that ends us up with a really inefficient OS.

Now most of you may ask, why the heck has SONY been limiting the powers of secondary OSs like Linux (for now), well .. if Linux had to power to use each and every hardware on the lowest level just like it might use on a PC, then it'd be probably being like shooting urself in the skull with your own gun by your own hands.

There's no surety that PS3 will be that 'secure' from linux hacks for long and some day (very soon), we'll have secondary OSs that can access the PS3 fully with no limitations. But till then, if you keep trying running benchmarking apps on the emulated LINUX running on ur PS3 box ..and then comparing the results with some other computer's benchmarks results.. you'll obviously be thinking of the PS3's cell as loser, which isn't the scenario.

I'd say, just verify the results yourself, i.e. if you have the guts, write some god-damn benchmarking app code that'd run on the PS3's native OS by itself. i wont care if the cell will lose in that case then, but the chances of cell losing the race are very slim. I guess i've explained enough. l8r ... now where's my calculus book.....

P.S.: I wont discuss about yellow dog atm caz there are so many issues to be fixed within it and it still needed to be verified whether YD can access all the hardware, as its officially said or its just a blatant PR.

 

[iNF3RN0]

Wooh let me join this debate too..so what's this debate is all about? What's the point of comparing a cell processor with a PowerPC based processor? both have their own pros and cons..why are you guys comparing a orange with an apple?

If you guys are seeing the processors i-e PS3 cell processor and Xbox 360 PowerPC based processor from the video game console point of view then there is not a big performance difference between the two..you all are missing the important point i-e how they both process the instructions code!

Ever notice why Cell processor have a high floating point? why PowerPC have a high integral processing capability? etc..


If you are seeing the processors from the game consoles processing power point, then the only advantage PS3 have is from power usuage perspective..

If anyone can prove that, a centain game can perform better on PS3 then on Xbox 360 or a game on Xbox 360 can perform better on PS3 from the processing point of view, then be my guest and explain it to me so my knowledge can be get expanded a lil bit more..

 

[devilscallmedad]

I'll make it short, have a closer lok at that 'home of techies & prgrmrs' and/or other tech sites. Its clearly stated and (commonly known) that the linux run on the PS3 is emulated, the OS is not allowed to use the hardware at the lowest level at all. The graphics capability is EMULATED entirely, the cell partially acts as teh graphics processor.

These comments make me laugh everytime, people claiming the cell is god doesn't even know why its considered that in the first place. IBM DEVELOPED THE CELL AS A CPU WHICH DOESNT REQUIRE A GPU THE CELL IS SUPPOSED TO BE BOTH A CPU AND GPU UNIFIED. AND IF IT CAN'T DO THAT FOR A NOT SO GRAPHIC INTENSIVE APPLICATION LIKE THE LINUX IT CERTAINLY AIN'T MUCH GOOD FOR GAMES. LOL THIS MAKES THE CELL A NORMAL PROCESSOR!!!
And PPE is the actual core of the cell the SPE's are much lower in power and can only be used for very specific tasks. By doing a benchmark comparison of the SPE you can safely estimate the real world perfromance of the Cell processor which is stated to be compareable to a 2.2-2.4GHZ processor. An example would be that two SPE's were used only by collison detection in resistance fall of man.
The Cell processor does has a very impressive floating point power which is pretty much not needed for games

@Inferno Abbas here belives that the PS3 processor is more powerful than the ones available for the PC. I was trying to clear his misconception

 

[Atif]

dx10 is a good thing so u can ot say that gamers do not want dx 10 gaming.look its a revolution and if u ay that u have to buy a dx10 card then do not buy it on the start.in my opinion and wat i alwasys do is that buy a mainstream card which is always good in price and performance.right now 8800 is available and its no doubt is expensive but wait till march until a mainstream model of geforce 8 is out then buy it and trust me u will not be disopinted.so in my view dx10 gaming is essetianl and we all have to acept this reality.(w)

 

[iNF3RN0]

@Devil: That's funny, as I said before comparing a cell processor with a X86-based and powerPC-based processors is like comparing oranges with apples.

Both PowerPC-based processor and cell processor were developed by IBM, ever thought why apple choose the Intel X86-based processors for their future Macs?

Right now Cell processor (the current generation) is only getting used in some Toshiba electronics products, in Sony PS3 and in Mercury supercomputers.

Now, as I said again look on the two words "Floating" and "Integral" (General purpose) processing power of both processors to get the idea..

And right now the current generation of Cell processor (with powerPC-based core) is not so powerful for a average Joe i-e home-based PCs due to their work requirements.

If anyone here says that the current generation of cell processor is enough to replace the X86 based processors in our PCs then that would be the most funny thing ever...unless someone over-geek enough to proved it...no one done it yet..so be my guest (again)

Enjoy!

 

[Chandoo]

unless someone over-geek enough to proved it...no one done it yet..so be my guest (again)

well then you should be happy that devil is on the other side lol

 

[iNF3RN0]

^ Actually if you read the Devil posts, he is quite right about the fact that a cell processor (current gen) can't be used as a equivalent to a X86 processor! IBM the maker of Cell processor still using X86 processors for his popular servers line-up like Edge, and Blade! and IBM still testing and modifying the current gen of the cell processor for his upcoming new server product known as "Cell Processors Based Blade Server".

I am not seeing any point of discussing this debate further because for me it don't make any sense...so I am out from this debate..

I will jump in back, if I see someone from IBM actually prove that the current cell processor can be used as a equivalent for our X86 based processor

Bye..

 

[devilscallmedad]

well then you should be happy that devil is on the other side lol

lol you have no clue whats going on


@Inferno spot on

 

[Chandoo]

lol you have no clue whats going on

i was just referring to inferno's comment of someone geeking it up a notch and finding information to prove something lol, sort of like what you do, no ?

 

[Rebel640]

ok ....this thread is spinning my head now ... i'd better study those notes rather then trying to figure out whats being intended and actually conveyed by all the guys here

 

[radd]

or in other words , you concede defeat ! hahaha

 

[devilscallmedad]

i was just referring to inferno's comment of someone geeking it up a notch and finding information to prove something lol, sort of like what you do, no ?

Knowing how to use google is considered geeky now :hah:

The world is truly moving towards Idiocracy

 

[Chandoo]

Knowing how to use google is considered geeky now

knowing how to use google and keep using it until you find what you need so you can show someone else down .. maybe

 

[devilscallmedad]

knowing how to use google and keep using it until you find what you need so you can show someone else down .. maybe

Actually Google is very easy to use, i usually find anything i am looking for among the first 5-6 results on the first page.

This will come true
Idiocracy

 

[Chandoo]

This will come true
Idiocracy

and you'll be the guy who wakes up after 500 years right ? lol

 

[iNF3RN0]

Ok..I think that's enough...if you guys got something related to the original topic then post..don't spam buy pin-pointing each other and making the topic a mess..

Any irrelevant post below this notice will be deleted without any notification!

 

[devilscallmedad]

This topic is dead then i guess, unless abbas has something more to say?

 

[Rebel640]

I'd love to say and discuss but right now the situation is somethign like ..i am in deep shit ... exams going on ... i cant concentrate on stuff ... everything seems foooked up in real life ...

I have had a total sleep of something like 2.5+4+3.5+2+3.5 hours this week ... I am amused by the way you guys keep bashing each other and will love to reply soon ..right now its 5 PM ..i just came back after getting my ass kicked in a programming exam, last night my hopes were pretty high as i am supposed to be the best in my class in this subject ..but looks like luck is pretty much against me ..i wanna type more but i am feeeeeling like a drunk loser right nowwww ..sooooo sleepy head and dishearted by things ... i guess u'll be watching me shoutin' hear in the coming few days (i.e. if everything goes well (my exam)) ...... till then ... erm.. nothing till then.
Now where's my pillow ... my sleepless-ness is making me feel like i need anger managment ... why am i still typing all this ... ugh ..anyway ..i am off to my bed ..lol ..i am ON my bed anyway ..just need to get some sleep now .... DCMD: Kazama will be back!!