What will be the cost of Haswell CPU's in PAK?

[devnull]

If an i7 belongs to a niche market (according to you), then how the hell can profits be made in volumes?
You're making no sense yourself. 'Niche' means relating to a specific and small part of the market (google it). And because of that, Niche can't relate to profit in volumes, you're contradicting in your own words. Looks like you didn't get the memo.
.

My goodness you can't understand basic English! I have clearly said that vendors have to have higher margins because of the low volumes of niche products instead of low margins and high volumes found in mass market products. Note the use of "instead of".

So the vendors have to keep a large profit margin per unit instead of keeping low margins and making money off the sales volumes.

Frankly I am tired of this. If you can't understand what I write then there is no point in this discussion any more. I am out!

 

[hasanJ]

You said $320 strictly and my reply was towards that, now extending your margin e.g. $320~$340 is pretty lame to be honest. Secondly, you never even answered my question, clearly you know nothing about this 'trend'.

20$ increase is understandable because as [MENTION=32279]Baghi[/MENTION] has posted even i7 3770K was increased 20$ in Price from Launch till today
320-340$ is the same price range

Lastly, if you ever even read the most latest of news/rumors/articles, it's been said that Haswell may be the last generation of its kind with the support of different separate motherboards, whereas Broadwell may not carry on this feature as it would be a complete 'SOC' chip.

Incorrect
Broadwell will be a Die Shrink of Haswell and compatible with LGA1150

With Skylake Intel will transition to BGA and phase out Sockets

And you're mentioning 'better buy' for a chip (Broadwell) that we basically know nothing off, so just having support for a socket doesn't justify it being a 'better buy', especially without any theoretical evidence.

Im mentioning "Haswell" to be the better buy in light of the Benchmarks revealed and LGA1150's forward compatibility to Broadwell

 

[Baghi]

Incorrect
Broadwell will be a Die Shrink of Haswell and compatible with LGA1150

With Skylake Intel will transition to BGA and phase out Sockets

^ this.

Lastly, if you ever even read the most latest of news/rumors/articles, it's been said that Haswell may be the last generation of its kind with the support of different separate motherboards, whereas Broadwell may not carry on this feature as it would be a complete 'SOC' chip. And you're mentioning 'better buy' for a chip (Broadwell) that we basically know nothing off, so just having support for a socket doesn't justify it being a 'better buy', especially without any theoretical evidence.

According to unidentified sources from Taiwan-based mainboard manufacturers cited by DigiTimes web-site, Intel will retain LGA packaging for 95% of desktop central processing units until, at least, the first half of 2015, when the company rolls-out chips powered by code-named Skylake micro-architecture. There will be entry-level chips for desktops based on Broadwell and Skylake architectures in BGA packaging, just like there are various Atom and ultra-low-power chips in BGA form-factor today. Still the majority of mainstream desktop chips will come in LGA packaging, which allows interchangeability of chips for OEMs and upgradeability for the end-user.

Intel Changes Plans: Set to Continue with Upgradeable LGA Platforms Even with Skylake Chips - X-bit labs

Need more evidence?

 

[hasanJ]

Chalo bhai even Skylake Processor will be Socket type

 

[Ali Man]

^ this.




Intel Changes Plans: Set to Continue with Upgradeable LGA Platforms Even with Skylake Chips - X-bit labs

Need more evidence?

Lol, you posted news that was released just yesterday. Lets see what happens.

 

[Ali Man]

20$ increase is understandable because as @Baghi has posted even i7 3770K was increased 20$ in Price from Launch till today

Lol wrong, 3770K was released at $350 and 3570K was released at $250. Now they can be found over $50 bucks cheaper in the international market whereas these release day prices are still being sold in Pakistan.

Im mentioning "Haswell" to be the better buy in light of the Benchmarks revealed and LGA1150's forward compatibility to Broadwell

Actually in light of current benches, there's hardly any performance increase, but rather a performance decrease in a handful of them. Still waiting for better and solid no.s from retail samples, unlike this engineering one. And again, we don't know what the future holds in terms of how Broadwell would be. And just saying that if it's compatible then it would automatically be a 'better buy' is a misconception. And plus it's not like newer chipsets of motherboards wouldn't be made with broadwells release.

 

[Baghi]

Lol, you posted news that was released just yesterday. Lets see what happens.

You talked about "up-to-date" information and gave it to you.

Lol wrong, 3770K was released at $350 and 3570K was released at $250.

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/ivy-bridge-benchmark-core-i7-3770k,3181.html focus on the price column, bro.

Obviously, retailers have this neck of overcharging their customers as much as possible at start. Look at the GeForce GTX Titan, it's being sold as much as $1300 in some regions.

 

[hasanJ]

Lol wrong, 3770K was released at $350 and 3570K was released at $250. Now they can be found over $50 bucks cheaper in the international market whereas these release day prices are still being sold in Pakistan.

No what u quoted is not the MSRP of the Processor

MSRP of Core i7 2600K and 3770K was the same meaning 4770K will follow the same trend

Actually in light of current benches, there's hardly any performance increase, but rather a performance decrease in a handful of them. Still waiting for better and solid no.s from retail samples, unlike this engineering one.

There is reasonable performance increase

Its not like 3770K had any significantly improvement over 2600K

And again, we don't know what the future holds in terms of how Broadwell would be. And just saying that if it's compatible then it would automatically be a 'better buy' is a misconception.

We know Broadwell will be a Die Shrink Successor to Haswell
We know Broadwell will be Faster than Haswell

Hence LGA1150's support for Broadwell holds significant weight over LGA1155 which will not see ANY new processors

And plus it's not like newer chipsets of motherboards wouldn't be made with broadwells release.

Option 1
Buy Ivy Motherboard + Ivy Processor NOW
Buy Broadwell Motherboard + Broadwell Processor in 2014

Option 2
Buy Haswell Motherboard + Haswell Processor NOW
Buy Broadwell Processor ONLY in 2014

Why buy 2 Motherboards?

The situation is same when 3rd Gen was about to be released
ppl made the same arguments against Ivy Bridge as they are making against Haswell and they will make the same arguments against Broadwell in 2014

 

[Ali Man]

You talked about "up-to-date" information and gave it to you.


Intel Core i7-3770K Review: A Small Step Up For Ivy Bridge : Ivy Bridge: Was It Worth The Wait? focus on the price column, bro.

Obviously, retailers have this neck of overcharging their customers as much as possible at start. Look at the GeForce GTX Titan, it's being sold as much as $1300 in some regions.

It doesn't matter if it's even being sold for that much, the point is it's actual retail cost and if people aren't stupid enough to pay more than it.

No what u quoted is not the MSRP of the Processor

MSRP of Core i7 2600K and 3770K was the same meaning 4770K will follow the same trend

Lol, you're saying just the opposite, they both have different MSRP's, but now their retail cost has become pretty much the same and which is the same thing that I was talking about, the price that it hits the shelves on day 1 and not after one year, that's ridiculous to even talk about.

There is reasonable performance increase

Its not like 3770K had any significantly improvement over 2600K

You don't get it, Ivy brought a whole new production process with the 22nm processor production, which makes it a couple of million more transistors than Sandy and apart from that using 3D gate transistors which produce and stop current more efficiently. So the difference between a 2600K (32nm) and a 3770K (22nm) would definitely be more than a 3770K (22nm) and a 4770K (22nm). Preliminary benchmarks have already spoken.

We know Broadwell will be a Die Shrink Successor to Haswell
We know Broadwell will be Faster than Haswell

Do we now?
Well man, speak for yourself, I'll believe it when I see it. Not everything can be so easily speculated especially when you're talking at least more than year ahead of yourself.

Hence LGA1150's support for Broadwell holds significant weight over LGA1155 which will not see ANY new processors

Haven't you learnt anything from this current generation?
Even though many platforms including the most famous Z68 did have support for Ivy Bridge processors, but this chipset still didn't work well with them. The most common problem after the bios update were black screens. Gigabyte suffered the most. And when did stable bioses actually came out? Well, a good four months after Ivy was even released. Whereas on the other hand, Z77 had natively excellent support for Ivy Bridge processors and as well as Sandy Bridge ones.

The situation is same when 3rd Gen was about to be released
ppl made the same arguments against Ivy Bridge as they are making against Haswell and they will make the same arguments against Broadwell in 2014

Most arguments are literally from illiterate goons, others actually have valid points. In the end, the most important factor is the amount of performance you'd get with proportional to how much you're gonna be paying for it. And like I mentioned before, if Haswell just uses fluxless soldering instead of a cheap TIM, it would still be a successful processor in comparison to Ivy, except for LN2 users.

 

[hasanJ]

Lol, you're saying just the opposite, they both have different MSRP's, but now their retail cost has become pretty much the same and which is the same thing that I was talking about, the price that it hits the shelves on day 1 and not after one year, that's ridiculous to even talk about.

Both 2nd and 3rd Gen i7 had same MSRP at Launch which means 4th Gen will follow the same trend

You don't get it, Ivy brought a whole new production process with the 22nm processor production, which makes it a couple of million more transistors than Sandy and apart from that using 3D gate transistors which produce and stop current more efficiently. So the difference between a 2600K (32nm) and a 3770K (22nm) would definitely be more than a 3770K (22nm) and a 4770K (22nm). Preliminary benchmarks have already spoken.

Sandy = Tock = Architecture Jump
Ivy = Tick = Die Shrink of the SAME Architecture
Haswell = Tock = Architecture Jump

Core2Duo Conroe = Tock = Architecture Jump
Core2Duo Wolfdale = Tick = Die Shrink of the SAME Architecture

Do we now?
Well man, speak for yourself, I'll believe it when I see it. Not everything can be so easily speculated especially when you're talking at least more than year ahead of yourself.

Its plain as daylight
1- Intel will transition to 15nm with Broadwell
2- Broadwell will be faster than Haswell

Do u seriously believe Broadwell will actually turn out to be slower than Haswell? :S

Haven't you learnt anything from this current generation?
Even though many platforms including the most famous Z68 did have support for Ivy Bridge processors, but this chipset still didn't work well with them. The most common problem after the bios update were black screens. Gigabyte suffered the most. And when did stable bioses actually came out? Well, a good four months after Ivy was even released. Whereas on the other hand, Z77 had natively excellent support for Ivy Bridge processors and as well as Sandy Bridge ones.

4 Months wait and saving the cost of a New motherboard trumps buying a new motherboard for a processor 10% faster at most

Why should one spend 15k Rs on a Motherboard today when he can buy a 15k Rs LGA1150 Motherboard in June which will be forward compatible

LGA1155 is dead sadly like LGA1156 before it

Most arguments are literally from illiterate goons, others actually have valid points. In the end, the most important factor is the amount of performance you'd get with proportional to how much you're gonna be paying for it. And like I mentioned before, if Haswell just uses fluxless soldering instead of a cheap TIM, it would still be a successful processor in comparison to Ivy, except for LN2 users.

Another important factor is the advantage of a New Platform which will see processors for 2 Years compared to a now dead Platform

 

[Ali Man]

That's where you're making no dam sense. If 1155 is your so-called 'dead platform', then what platform is even alive right now, none?

Socket 1150 mobos haven't even reached their exact maturity level as yet and you're calling 1155 a dead platform, lol, good one. Anyways, I've had enough of this stupid argument. Just wait and see the retail price of Haswell when it hits the market, then I'll see how 'eager' you'll be to jump on it.

And btw, Broadwell is said to be based on a 14nm die, not 15nm.

 

[Baghi]

It doesn't matter if it's even being sold for that much, the point is it's actual retail cost and if people aren't stupid enough to pay more than it.

Actually people are. They just want to be the FIRST.

 

[Salvation]

The thread starter hasn't even posted anything in the last 4 pages of this thread while others fight over LGA 1155 socket being dead or not.

*WelcomeToPakGamers.GIF* -__________________-

 

[hasanJ]

That's where you're making no dam sense. If 1155 is your so-called 'dead platform', then what platform is even alive right now, none?

Current LGA1155 users should continue to use LGA1155
Current LGA1155 buyers should wait a few months and invest in LGA1150

Socket 1150 mobos haven't even reached their exact maturity level as yet and you're calling 1155 a dead platform, lol, good one. Anyways, I've had enough of this stupid argument. Just wait and see the retail price of Haswell when it hits the market, then I'll see how 'eager' you'll be to jump on it.

By dead platform im implying no further LGA1155 Processors in the future

And btw, Broadwell is said to be based on a 14nm die, not 15nm.

14 or 15 or 10 the point is Broadwell will be a Die Shrink of Haswell not a new architecture
Haswell on the other hand is an architectural jump over Ivy

 

[CerebralTiger]

By dead platform im implying no further LGA1155 Processors in the future

This.

A platform is considered as good as dead when there is no further support in terms of processors.

Of course, that doesn't mean it would become irrelevant to pre-existing LGA1155 users, like hasanJ said. Just that it isn't future-proof, relatively speaking.

 

[Ali Man]

Actually people are. They just want to be the FIRST.

Yea I know what you mean, many people wasted their money paying a few hundred extra on ebay. But the Titan came back in stock quite a lot earlier as compared to the 680s at launch.

Current LGA1155 users should continue to use LGA1155
Current LGA1155 buyers should wait a few months and invest in LGA1150

That did not answer my question. In any case, a few months wouldn't even do if that's what you're so much hoping for.

By dead platform im implying no further LGA1155 Processors in the future

A platform is referred to as dead when no one is using it anymore, but not what you just said.
And as long as 1150 along with it's processors doesn't hit the market, just like I said before, 1155 is still the current best thing anyone can buy right now.

14 or 15 or 10 the point is Broadwell will be a Die Shrink of Haswell not a new architecture
Haswell on the other hand is an architectural jump over Ivy

According to Intel, the 'tock' is their architectural change, but the 'tick' generally and theoretically is the actual change in architecture. There was a good debate upon this last year which I'm really not willing to get into.

 

[hasanJ]

That did not answer my question. In any case, a few months wouldn't even do if that's what you're so much hoping for.

Oh it does answer ur question

A platform is referred to as dead when no one is using it anymore, but not what you just said.

ppl are still using Pentium 4s on the Pin Socket 845/865 Motherboard implying that D845GVSR Motherboard is alive and kicking?

A platform is dead if no further processors are released on it

And as long as 1150 along with it's processors doesn't hit the market, just like I said before, 1155 is still the current best thing anyone can buy right now.

And an even better option is to wait out a few months for LGA1150

According to Intel, the 'tock' is their architectural change, but the 'tick' generally and theoretically is the actual change in architecture. There was a good debate upon this last year which I'm really not willing to get into.

Please get into this debate

Enlighten me which "tick" caused an architectural change

 

[Ali Man]

Oh it does answer ur question

If you have no answer, just at least admit it rather than fooling yourself around it.
NO, it does not answer my question. I didn't ask something rocket science.

ppl are still using Pentium 4s on the Pin Socket 845/865 Motherboard implying that D845GVSR Motherboard is alive and kicking?

If their P4's are working then it is bloody well alive and kicking, what's so hard to understand that about. Check out this scenario and look at the kind of foolish accusation you're implying:

Nigga 1: Hey dude, what Rig are you running?
Nigga 2: A P4 HT 3.2Ghz, still alive and kicking, how about yourself?

Nigga 1: Dude, you're running a dead platform.
Nigga 2: Well it may be dead in a way that it's quite old, but just like I said, still alive and kicking. It works well for the tasks that I need it for.

Nigga 1: Nah man, your platform is dead, how can you say that it's alive and kicking? It died somewhere in 2008.
Nigga 2: Well because it's actually 'working' and not 'dead', are you high?

Nigga 1: I may have had a few..... but I'm still right, your platform is dead.
Nigga 2: At first, I took it as a 'figure of speech', but now you really are sounding crazy. How can a platform be dead when it's actually working just fine? Do you know what does 'alive and kicking' even mean before using this term?

Nigga 1: Oh yea, alive and kicking can ONLY be used for that platform that can have further upgrades in the terms of processors, but not the ones that are actually running, may it be on any other platform.
Nigga 2: *Shoots Nigga 1 in the head*, who's alive and kicking now, biatch. Or are you gonna say, a dead man shot you?

A platform is dead if no further processors are released on it

*Says a guy who represents Nigga 1*

And an even better option is to wait out a few months for LGA1150

I personally waited 5 months just to build an Ivy Bridge rig and to find out that it wasn't worth all that wait. Kamran nigga told me not to wait, but I ignored what he said, but he was right.
And knowing Intel's attitude for postponing release dates that often makes it even worse to wait.

Please get into this debate

Enlighten me which "tick" caused an architectural change

Google the difference between 22nm architecture and 32nm architecture, that itself represents your actual architecture change. Haswell is a tweaked version of your Ivy Bridge, but it uses the same architecture. However, from Intel's POV, they call Haswell or any 'tock' cycle an architecture change which actually is pretty lame. I mentioned this exactly a year back in another thread.

 

[Cerberus]

I did a better thing
Sold my ivy i5 non k setup at good prices and moved to sandy bridge g620
Cash in hand
Will buy haswell if priced good or used 3770k as it will be much cheaper then. Prolly used

Sent from my A10 using Tapatalk 2

 

[Baghi]

I don't see what's problem with waiting. If OP hasn't got a PC at all and he needs to build one badly, then the Ivy Bridge is still a good buy - it's nearly a year old now, meaning all the problems/issues related to earlier batches and motherboard + BIOS has been addressed already. It's much more matured now. The B75/Z77 based motherboards have all the features one could ever need in this day and age.

i7-3770k / i5-3570k / i5-3350P + Z77 OC Formula / GA-Z77X-UD5H / GA-B75M-D3H are solid options available locally depending on what you want to achieve.