[OT] .::The Official 3G/4G LTE Thread::.

[zafarabbasrizvi]

Ufone should replace 850MHz band with 2100MHz from (FAB ) frequency Allocation Board of Pakistan .then ufone will be king of this battle....then
B1 will 20MHz bandwidth with 2100 MHz frequency
+
B3 will 23.4 MHz bandwidth with 1800 MHz frequency
+
B8 will 12 MHz bandwidth with 900 MHz frequency
Total 55 MHz bandwidth will best for beat jazz and zong

It's not like a soap bought from a kiryana shop that one can return or exchange. Telenor bought this with full intention. Although Ufone is unlikely to renew it in 2031

 

[shaheerk]

Remember that they have a lot of rural customers so they can't just allocate al lbands to 4G. At least, 5Mhz will be reserved for 3G, and a couple extra for 2G (depending on how the spectrum is allocated).

Also, for DC-HSPA, the spectrum needs to be contiguous. They've realized that with the sheer number of towers, instead of allocating bandwidth to 3G, allocate it to 4G and keep 3G to a throttled limit.

Aggregation can happen within each band (if the spectrum isn't contiguous - IIRC, it is, though) but it's better if it is contiguous - that way, there's "less hopping" required to achieve the same amount of bandwidth.

850Mhz is good for basic penetration. Not sure they can surrender that. What they COULD do is
5Mhz of 850 for 3G, and 5Mhz of 850 for 4G (as the base layer).
5Mhz of 2100Mhz for 3G
5Mhz of 900Mhz for 3G (for compatibility)
Spare some for 2G in 1800Mhz and 900Mhz
Toss the rest towards 4G.

Doesn't matter what we decide here; the networks have the stats on what phones are on their networks and what bands their phones connect to, and THEN they'll decide how to allocate spectrum and what to get rid of (remember, spectrum isn't free, requires a license payment after x number of years, and no operator wants to pay unnecessarily more, so I feel they're going to shed off some spectrum instead).

850Mhz was already riddled with issues (filter on network stations to stop interference) but it's good for penetration, albeit not too significantly different from 900Mhz, so... we can't theorize until we get an idea of which bands are being used and by how many devices, and what other bands those devices can support for impact analysis.

 

[zafarabbasrizvi]

Remember that they have a lot of rural customers so they can't just allocate al lbands to 4G. At least, 5Mhz will be reserved for 3G, and a couple extra for 2G (depending on how the spectrum is allocated).

Also, for DC-HSPA, the spectrum needs to be contiguous. They've realized that with the sheer number of towers, instead of allocating bandwidth to 3G, allocate it to 4G and keep 3G to a throttled limit.

Aggregation can happen within each band (if the spectrum isn't contiguous - IIRC, it is, though) but it's better if it is contiguous - that way, there's "less hopping" required to achieve the same amount of bandwidth.

850Mhz is good for basic penetration. Not sure they can surrender that. What they COULD do is
5Mhz of 850 for 3G, and 5Mhz of 850 for 4G (as the base layer).
5Mhz of 2100Mhz for 3G
5Mhz of 900Mhz for 3G (for compatibility)
Spare some for 2G in 1800Mhz and 900Mhz
Toss the rest towards 4G.

Doesn't matter what we decide here; the networks have the stats on what phones are on their networks and what bands their phones connect to, and THEN they'll decide how to allocate spectrum and what to get rid of (remember, spectrum isn't free, requires a license payment after x number of years, and no operator wants to pay unnecessarily more, so I feel they're going to shed off some spectrum instead).

850Mhz was already riddled with issues (filter on network stations to stop interference) but it's good for penetration, albeit not too significantly different from 900Mhz, so... we can't theorize until we get an idea of which bands are being used and by how many devices, and what other bands those devices can support for impact analysis.

I think all smartphones in Pakistan older or new supports 850 MHz band for 3G network. And all phones launched from 2017 onwards also supports 850 MHz for 4G now. But 4G+ combo of band 1+3+8 is more common in devices than band 1+3+5. So in my opinion Ufone after merger will adopt this combination just like Jazz and Zong are offering.
1. From total of their 23.8 MHz of band 3, they will use 20 MHz for 4G and remaining 3.8 MHz for 2G
2. From total of 10 MHz of band 1 they will use all for 4G
3. From total of 12.4 MHz of band 8 they will use 10 MHz for 4G and remaining 2.4 for 2G
4. From total of 10 MHz of band 5 they will use all for DC-HSPA+ (3G)
And as you can see in below chart Ufone and Telenor has contagious spectrum in all allocations.

.
But these are just our guess, only God knows what combination they use for what technology after merger.

 

[EliTuS]

Which one of Zong and Jazz's 4G coverage you guys find better in Islamabad and Rawalpindi (both indoors and outdoors) and also on motorways M1 and M2?

 

[shaheerk]

I think all smartphones in Pakistan older or new supports 850 MHz band for 3G network. And all phones launched from 2017 onwards also supports 850 MHz for 4G now. But 4G+ combo of band 1+3+8 is more common in devices than band 1+3+5. So in my opinion Ufone after merger will adopt this combination just like Jazz and Zong are offering.
1. From total of their 23.8 MHz of band 3, they will use 20 MHz for 4G and remaining 3.8 MHz for 2G
2. From total of 10 MHz of band 1 they will use all for 4G
3. From total of 12.4 MHz of band 8 they will use 10 MHz for 4G and remaining 2.4 for 2G
4. From total of 10 MHz of band 5 they will use all for DC-HSPA+ (3G)
And as you can see in below chart Ufone and Telenor has contagious spectrum in all allocations.

.
But these are just our guess, only God knows what combination they use for what technology after merger.

This is assuming they choose to keep all of the spectrum.

 

[shaheerk]

Which one of Zong and Jazz's 4G coverage you guys find better in Islamabad and Rawalpindi (both indoors and outdoors) and also on motorways M1 and M2?

They all fail at Kalar Kahar (M2). Also, they all have varying levels of coverage, depending on where the tower is installed. As for Mobilink, you can sometimes fall back to 3G at several places. Zong, IIRC, much less so.

Mobilink will be able to give you much higher speeds at weaker signals. Zong, not all the time. But if I didn't have Mobilink, I'd be on Zong.

 

[zafarabbasrizvi]

This is assuming they choose to keep all of the spectrum.

They have already paid for band 1 till 2029, band 5 till 2031, Ufone GSM bands till 2030 and Telenor GSM bands till 2034 and Ufone NGMS band 3 till 2036. Only spectrum they unlikely to renew is 10 MHz in band 5 in 2031.

 

[EliTuS]

They all fail at Kalar Kahar (M2). Also, they all have varying levels of coverage, depending on where the tower is installed. As for Mobilink, you can sometimes fall back to 3G at several places. Zong, IIRC, much less so.

Mobilink will be able to give you much higher speeds at weaker signals. Zong, not all the time. But if I didn't have Mobilink, I'd be on Zong.

Is the fallback supposed to be automatic by the phone? Or are we supposed to it manually if 4G is not working well?

 

[zafarabbasrizvi]

Is the fallback supposed to be automatic by the phone? Or are we supposed to it manually if 4G is not working well?

Automatically

 

[EliTuS]

Automatically

But does Jazz even have 3G running anymore where they have 4G coverage?

 

[shaheerk]

Yep. They even have 2G running where there's 3G. Not all phones support VoLTE so they need 3G coverage, and their 3G call quality is so bad that it ends up falling over to 2G during the call (you can tell while you're on a call that the voice is no more clear, and cell handovers are distorted, a trait of 2G)

 

[EliTuS]

Yep. They even have 2G running where there's 3G. Not all phones support VoLTE so they need 3G coverage, and their 3G call quality is so bad that it ends up falling over to 2G during the call (you can tell while you're on a call that the voice is no more clear, and cell handovers are distorted, a trait of 2G)

So you mean their 2G call quality is better? Cuz I don't have 3G here (we have 4G VoLTE) in Wah Cantt and the call quality is quite bad when I call off-net.

 

[shaheerk]

Erm... Their 2G call is okay (except when the network keeps switching over to different towers because on 2G, each time there's a handover, the voice garbles - that's just how 2G behaves, and not specific to Jazz).

3G - the other operators do a much better job at staying on 3G during a call. I don't know why calls don't stick to 3G on Jazz... It's like it's allergic or something to it.

With 4G, it only goes down to 3G if the 4G signal drops (which is probably won't since 4G penetration is fairly widespread everywhere now). So if you have VOLTE, go for that.

 

[shujah200]

Thank you for all the info. i was unknown to these things before i come to this thread, and was struggling to find a stable source for myself.. (signal not good here possibility of boarder area )

i am using 4g sim in usb mobile wifi (ups powered ) in rural area ( on roof + with 8-9ft hieght by bamboo and some self made protection from water )
my device is cat4...

then in room using wifi extend..



Almost all operator i have tried and now on jazz 1800

 

[shaheerk]

The third screenshot shows it's Ufone. What about the first two?

Also, the 4G to 3G fallback only occurs when you DON'T have volte. If you do, then the phone won't see a reason to use 3G.

At my house, Jazz has decent 2G... the signals are decent (don't go for the bars, look for the RSRP/Q numbers) but I can't place a call unless I'm on one end of the house. 3G is iffy, and 4G calling doesn't work on my phone. Also, they've got 900Mhz on 4G and that signal is jammed in my area for some unknown reason. That said, my mum has volte on her third class Huawei handset... but since we're a nation of prepaid items, we use WhatsApp to call lol.

4G speeds are actually fine in our house (not blazing fast, but fine).

Zong 3G calls are fine. 4G speeds are abysmal despite having better signal strength.

 

[shujah200]

The third screenshot shows it's Ufone. What about the first two?

Also, the 4G to 3G fallback only occurs when you DON'T have volte. If you do, then the phone won't see a reason to use 3G.

first two represent Jazz in previous post ,
and sim is in device so not using it for Call, to save myself from fallback to 3G i have selected 4G only on device.

check my screenshot and see value for rsrp and tell me about q Numbers ( reference values to understand it ) i dont know what it is

 

[zafarabbasrizvi]

The third screenshot shows it's Ufone. What about the first two?

Also, the 4G to 3G fallback only occurs when you DON'T have volte. If you do, then the phone won't see a reason to use 3G.

At my house, Jazz has decent 2G... the signals are decent (don't go for the bars, look for the RSRP/Q numbers) but I can't place a call unless I'm on one end of the house. 3G is iffy, and 4G calling doesn't work on my phone. Also, they've got 900Mhz on 4G and that signal is jammed in my area for some unknown reason. That said, my mum has volte on her third class Huawei handset... but since we're a nation of prepaid items, we use WhatsApp to call lol.

4G speeds are actually fine in our house (not blazing fast, but fine).

Zong 3G calls are fine. 4G speeds are abysmal despite having better signal strength.

Jazz signal strength at my house become very sluggish when it primarily connects to 1800 MHz in CA. But when it primarily connects to 900 MHz signal strength becomes better but call quality on VoLTE is very bad due to low signals. Jazz recently launched 3 way CA with addition to 2100 MHz but phone only connects to 3 way CA on my roof or open areas of our vincinity. Same is the case at my office in district courts Faisalabad when it comes to calling.
But since Jazz has launched VoWiFi I am in peace when ot comes to calling both at home and office.

 

[shaheerk]

first two represent Jazz in previous post ,
and sim is in device so not using it for Call, to save myself from fallback to 3G i have selected 4G only on device.

check my screenshot and see value for rsrp and tell me about q Numbers ( reference values to understand it ) i dont know what it is

RSRP: -84dBm (the signal strength level) (worst or barely usuable: if it's -110 dB or below, the best possible value is, I think, -49dB. Yours is in a decent range; you may or may not be able to improve your speeds by changing the location of the stick, but because it's wireless, there are multiple variables in play, including RSRQ).

RSRQ: -11dB (the signal quality meter) (the closer this is to zero, the better. -11 is actually pretty good. I don't think it goes below -20 dB, which is the worst. it's possible you can have a poor RSRP and an excellent RSRQ - often the case with indoor antennas - and get good speeds. It's possible you get a very strong RSRP and a poor RSRQ - that can sometimes lead to poor speeds).

SINR: 3dB (the Signal to Noise Ratio) (what is the usable signal compared to "disturbances" in the radio wave. The higher, the better. This is a combination of both RSRP/Q. It basically indicates "breathing room" for your device to offer high speeds... if the signal to noise is around zero, that means the device won't be able to get higher speeds. If SNR is, say, 10dB but the speeds are horrible, that probably means the tower is choked, or something else is messed up. Not sure what minimum and maximum ranges are applicable here).

This is a general guideline. But as you said, you seem to be doing well with Mobilink.

What speeds do you get on average? Do you have a screenshot which you can share?

 

[shaheerk]

Jazz signal strength at my house become very sluggish when it primarily connects to 1800 MHz in CA. But when it primarily connects to 900 MHz signal strength becomes better but call quality on VoLTE is very bad due to low signals. Jazz recently launched 3 way CA with addition to 2100 MHz but phone only connects to 3 way CA on my roof or open areas of our vincinity. Same is the case at my office in district courts Faisalabad when it comes to calling.
But since Jazz has launched VoWiFi I am in peace when ot comes to calling both at home and office.

Yeah, wifi calling helps a lot assuming your phone works with the network.

The thing with their 900Mhz where I live is that it's jammed, and sometimes, the phone connects to that as the primary carrier. If it uses 900Mhz as the secondary carrier (and 1800Mhz as the primary), then it continues to function.

Bahria Town being Bahria Town. They blame it on Adiala Jail (apparently, there's a line of sight that's not too far away) but I've seen their signals get jammed at other places as well and I'm not buying that argument because other operators work fine, and it's just that specific cluster that's affected.

Also, Jazz in Mirpur is horrible (you don't get good speeds - at all. Last time I remember going there, I barely got 1 Mbps. Apparently, they're running on 5Mhz there. Zong, IIRC, didn't have this oddity.)

I wonder when Zong will have their nationwide VoLTE and wifi calling launched.

 

[zafarabbasrizvi]

Yeah, wifi calling helps a lot assuming your phone works with the network.

The thing with their 900Mhz where I live is that it's jammed, and sometimes, the phone connects to that as the primary carrier. If it uses 900Mhz as the secondary carrier (and 1800Mhz as the primary), then it continues to function.

Bahria Town being Bahria Town. They blame it on Adiala Jail (apparently, there's a line of sight that's not too far away) but I've seen their signals get jammed at other places as well and I'm not buying that argument because other operators work fine, and it's just that specific cluster that's affected.

Also, Jazz in Mirpur is horrible (you don't get good speeds - at all. Last time I remember going there, I barely got 1 Mbps. Apparently, they're running on 5Mhz there. Zong, IIRC, didn't have this oddity.)

I wonder when Zong will have their nationwide VoLTE and wifi calling launched.

Jazz messed up 3G/4G auction in AJK and GB that is why they have poor quality services in Mir Pur. They didn't submitted bid for 2100 MHz at all when PTA offered 30 MHz of it for auction. Telenor got 15 MHz of band 1 at base price and 15 MHz went unsold. Zong and Jazz bid for only 1800 MHz and after 18 rounds of bidding Zong won 10 MHz of band 3 and Jazz got nothing. They might have refarmed their some of 2G spectrum there for 4G but that is not enough obviously.
And Bermuda Triangle's mystery is still at number 2nd in the world. First is Zong's approach towards VoLTE and VoWiFi.