[OT] .::The Official 3G/4G LTE Thread::.

zafarabbasrizvi said:

Another take on Rumored Zong-Telenor merger

Since Telenor is in need to have money for its European operations and upcoming 4G auction of Bangladesh (lucrative market for them), they might get some money from sale of Indian operations but why they will sale operations in Pakistan where they are already on second spot? Here is another take on it.

...

Now if we look at merged spectrum of both companies, its pretty lucrative

900 MHz Telenor 5 + Zong 7= 12 MHz
1800 MHz Telenor 8.8 + Zong 6+10= 24.8 MHz
2100 MHz Telenor 5 + Zong 10= 15
850 MHz Telenor 10 MHz

...

And if there will be 2 equally big companies, this will somehow spice up the competition between two companies. Look at this side of the story as well.

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I like this thinking - and if the two companies WERE to merge, this would be a big asset for them (the spectrum hoarding). But

1. Telenor doesn't need money. Those guys are rich!
2. Grameenphone is partially owned (and not wholly owned), so local equity would have to be used as well.
3. the reasons I've cited before is what makes me doubt anything will progress towards a merger.

As for two companies: depends. China has three operators. The UAE has two (and both operators, whilst maintaining relatively high prices, offer high internet speeds as well). The US and UK have four MAIN operators (they have MVNOs, but they're prepaid and in the minority). Many European countries don't have many operators. Bangladesh has a few only. South Africa, from what I recall, has three main operators (and one or two are MVNOs). Competition (except for the UAE) seems to be fine in these countries, but at the same time, collusion could happen here as well.

murtaza12 said:

Regardless of whether both companies combined have 24.8 MHz, they will not be able to deploy them in one big chunk due to there being frequency gaps in between Zong and Telenor's 1800 spectrum.

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I don't know if contiguous spectrum makes any difference - maybe towers can be configured to use two different frequencies/bands, as is the case with Telenor (I'm sure they're not constructing more towers, but re-using the existing infrastructure). Similar to Mobilink + Warid, where Mobilink customers are access Warid's towers but with 410 01 (and Warid 3G on Mobilink towers)... I'm sure they didn't set up new things from scratch. That's my logic.

If anybody wants to use Telenor (or even Mobilink) in Bahria Enclave Sector C (see map below), don’t. Because in most places (and specifically at this place) in the Enclave, you’ll get a rather unusable signal for data. Zong and Ufone had better 3G signal stats.

The above shot was Telenor, but Mobilink didn’t fare any better. 2G works here only for these operators (but weak for Telenor - forgot to test Mobilink).

Okay, back to Islamabad. Before I went to Bahria Enclave, I was at Islamabad Club, and decided to do another comparison. No speed tests this time, but only signal strength tests, since we can all agree that speeds depend on good SNR.

I must correct myself when I said Mobilink doesn’t cover Islamabad Club. They do - and you can see that in some places, they’re better (but worse in others). And as Telenor has more towers in the vicinity, you don’t lose their 3G signals in the Club. You can see that Mobilink actually has decent signal stats in the area.

I was in the upstairs toilet (don’t judge - I think toilets are one of the best places to test signals, because toilets aren’t always in the most convenient places, have obstructions, are in a corner, and this is also the only time when I can be in a stable signal area and not look like a lunatic), and got this on Telenor 4G:


Good signal stats. Everything is in green. SNR is high, and signal strength, while not full, is still high.

What about Mobilink?


Better raw signal, but the SNR is a little lower than Telenor’s (not too much to affect it negatively). So my statement that coverage there is weak is false, as far as 4G is concerned.

But hey - my tests mostly revolve around the ability to have a usable signal for placing calls, right? That is why we have telephones in the first place (and not internet dongles). This is what Telenor 3G gave me:



They had 2100Mhz covering there as well, but it was, naturally, a tiny bit weaker (not deep dark green, but more like lime green shades of signal strength, as shown above/below).

Mobilink? Well...


The SNR is slightly worse, but the actual signal, in itself, is higher.

I go downstairs to the gents praying area, next to the chairs where you can sit and take off/wear your shoes, and this is what I got on Telenor:


Not bad, right?

Here’s Mobilink:


And this is where the 850Mhz spectrum shines (I didn’t do a speed test) - Telenor has a better SNR, but because Telenor also has lower power transmission (vs. Mobilink), I’m not sure if the advantage is as significant as it would appear, since Mobilink, on a weaker signal (as experienced at Pindi Golf Club), can still pull in higher speeds. But you still get the signals from both operators.

I entered the library, and Telenor:


I know Telenor works here fairly decently, since I’ve used it before. Same goes for Zong (but as with all networks, it depends how strong the SNR is, and it varies quite a bit within the library). But do you see the neighboring cells? Telenor has four other cells (which means they cover the Club fairly well, and thus, this part of the Club is much less susceptible to losing 3G signals).

Mobilink:



Do you see they only have two towers in the area? Now, given that Telenor’s BTS/cell power is weaker (and Mobilink’s stronger), I don’t know how much of the advantage goes to Mobilink; I haven’t tested their internet in the library, but did in the family hall (opposite the library), and obviously, it wasn’t great (but usable) due to weak signals. But this also explains why Mobilink tends to fall back on Edge in the same dining hall (this also matters on how well your phone can retain the 3G signal - mine can, but the Galaxy S5 is less willing to).

Also interesting to see is that the SNR is much better (albeit with the higher frequency), despite the signal strength being weaker. I haven’t tested Mobilink 3G in the library though (I’ve used only Zong and Telenor), and I know they work - but with varying success - and no recent tests have been conducted though.

What can we gather from these tests?

• Mobilink does cover Islamabad Club - but Telenor has more towers than Mobilink (in line with my earlier statement that Telenor, per unit of area, generally has more towers)
• Telenor’s 850Mhz, where deployed, gives it an advantage in indoor coverage, BUT
• Mobilink’s high power cell sites gives it an advantage in SNR readings (and ultimately, a better data signal).

Unfortunately, because of different network implementation/rollout philosophies, Telenor can’t offer a higher SNR due to extraneous factors (roads/buildings/wires etc.). Mobilink can compensate some of that by beaming at higher powers, and at a higher height.

But because Mobilink’s coverage isn’t as dense as Telenor’s, people can only access Edge services (Bahria Town Phase 2 extension has weak Mobilink 3G and 2G coverage IIRC - I don’t know how it is now, but I hope they’ve done something about it, because some people - like @murtaza12 - started getting better signals one fine day at their house as well, so... that’s a good sign?). It doesn’t really put them at an advantage (or disadvantage) over Telenor because Telenor may have indoor 3G coverage, but it’s more usable for voice than data. At the end of the day, what do you get? Voice coverage from both operators - except one is on 2G and the other is on 3G. Data isn’t exactly usable for both operators in these cases.

There is one oddity I noticed though: in my room, when I force my phone to stay on 4G, and conduct a network search, Telenor shows up (but doesn’t connect - maybe they’re testing?). Mobilink and Warid show up as well, and Warid has stronger signals (see screenshot) than Zong - and we all know Warid towers are being used for Mobilink - but it won’t connect to the tower. This makes me think that Mobilink/Warid are probably setting up a tower or some cells in the area for 4G (but obviously, the signal won’t be strong enough to make it very usable, but at least my phone won’t fall back to Edge). (Also, Mobilink = Warid, and 410 01 = actual Mobilink)



But where there’s normal/perfect coverage, Mobilink will give you better speeds than Telenor (or Zong) because they don’t have lower power transmitters.

• If your requirement is voice calling ONLY: you won’t gain or lose anything by picking either Telenor or Mobilink (Telenor stays more on 3G than the other operators)
• If your requirement is data usage ONLY: you won’t go wrong with Mobilink or Zong (unless you’re @iNCEPTiON or @psy13)
• If your requirement is BOTH data usage and voice calling: In Islamabad/Rawalpindi, your best bet is Mobilink, and then Telenor (not great SNR in MANY places I tested) and lastly, Zong (because of distortion in 3G voice calls). If you live outside Isb/Rwp, you can place Zong above Telenor (because they have better data speeds, but you need to decide which operator covers more in your area/city).
• Telenor is setting up more towers to use the 850Mhz band, but hasn’t been deployed everywhere as of today. So either

1. 
   [*=1]You’ll get no signal (either because of actual zero Telenor coverage in the area, or they’re setting up 850Mhz on their tower but isn’t ready for deployment, so your phone will recognize 410 06 but won’t connect and go crazy), or
   [*=1]you’ll get average signal (2100 Mhz) with nothing in 850Mhz around you, or
   [*=1]you’ll get good signals. And unless you’re lucky and have good SNR, the signal will be useful for voice only (else you’ll have average data speeds at best).

• Telenor and Youtube don’t want to work at night.
• Telenor and simultaneous voice + data on 3G isn’t working for the past two days (but it was on Friday and on other days). But when both voice + data are functioning, you’re only getting average speeds at best, unless you sit on the tower or have a good SNR... so there’s a tradeoff.
• This application for measuring network strength is GOOD! Thank you for linking to it (forgot your name, sorry).

What will I do?

I didn’t quite gain much by porting to Telenor (except I got rid of the pathetic postpaid billing system, which should change as per @zafarabbasrizvi, and free conference calls yay!) but I certainly will gain by porting to Mobilink (better 4G coverage but with average speeds, better 3G speeds but with average 3G coverage) so I’m covered one way or another. After the two months are up, I’ll port back to Mobilink. And while I got some peace of mind by having an operator with a better billing system, I lost out on data speeds (indoors) comparable to Mobilink (on weak signals). For me, SNR also matters, whilst it may not matter for some.

What did I gain by porting to Telenor: the fact that should Mobilink+Warid go belly-up, I have an alternative (that I previously didn’t even consider at all).

I don’t think I need to conduct any more speed tests or signal tests - Telenor 4G is plenty fast (no users?) and 3G isn’t bad, but SNR is an issue that doesn’t allow you to use this to your advantage, and that’s just because of how they’ve placed their towers and designed their network. Telenor doesn’t seem to have capacity issues per se, but their signal quality needs to improve if downloaders want to use it. Voice coverage, generally speaking, is just as good as Mobilink.

Also, I think I went on overdrive these past few days for testing the networks. Now I’m just going to kill time (two months).

murtaza12 said:

@shaheerk

Hats off for the effort, I had to squint my eyes and had a 2 inch gap between my eyes and the monitor, the black font is impossible to read, was about to edit your post, but then noticed you changed it back after I refreshed the page lol.

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LOL I was typing this in a document first, and then copy-pasted it since the editor on PakGamers is a pain (sometimes, the cursor would jump around incessantly, especially on long posts, so this was my first attempt). As soon as I saw the black font, I edited it.

EDIT: Phase 2 extension, last time I went there, coverage was fairly decent, though that was in April 2015 lol, I had Warid at the time there were full bars on LTE, and Zong 3G was struggling to hold on.

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I went there in 2016. Mobilink 3G wasn't on my relative's phone (this was the day when I posted that Warid will eventually cease to exist, and Warid will use Mobilink's infrastructure and vice-versa) and it was just Edge - and weak Edge. But his phone is a Samsung (not known for their strong signals) and had taken out of his pocket at that time, so I'm sure that had an effect as well (vs. if he had not put it in his pocket to begin with). Zong 4G was strong, and 3G was weak. I don't know about the others though. I'm hoping it's improved.

You know the towers installed on the roof of ACE? I think one of them is Mobilink, and the other is Ufone, because whenever I'm at school, those are the only 2 networks with fantastic signal strength.

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Could be. The best way to know is to read the signal readings when in the school. I think one of them is Mobilink for sure, since I remember walking there once before, and 2G was working fine (this was before the 3G days). And I doubt they'd add another tower closeby though - unless something's changed. Which I hope so. But if we get strong 4G, then that's fine.

Phase 2 has good 3G/4G coverage now (Mobilink), cause of one of those towers, always getting higher than 15 Mbps in that area.

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And this is why I hope they add more towers to boost their signals (and if their tech department is to be believed, they did say they will boost their 3G signals as well). I know on the Motorway, on one of the service centers, 4G was connected but as soon as I received a call, it fell down to 2G directly (bypassing 3G). Zong doesn't do this - so it was good to know that you won't miss a call on Mobilink where they have bad 3G (and surprisingly, they had 3G - not strong - but it chose to not use it!)

murtaza12 said:

2100 MHz 3G can be deployed in a chunk of 15 MHz, since Telenor's 2100 block and Zong's 2100 block match up and the total uplink would be using 1920 - 1935 MHz, and downlink 2110 - 2125 MHz.

However, what you said about 4G reminded me of something you posted a few weeks back.

B3 1800 can only be deployed in chunks of 3, 5, 10, 15 and 20 MHz. Regardless of whether both companies combined have 24.8 MHz, they will not be able to deploy them in one big chunk due to there being frequency gaps in between Zong and Telenor's 1800 spectrum.

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LTE can be deployed in 3, 5, 10, 15 or 20 MHz sets means they cannot be deployed in sets like 4, 8, 13 or 18 MHz. It can be deployed in above sets regardless of frequency gap.

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[MENTION=63376]shaheerk[/MENTION] that my djuice offer is great, I am seriously considering this, I am fed up with jazz now, and the thing with low snr on telenor could be because they have to keep the transmission power low, so that neighbouring cells don't collide, this is the technique of frequency re-use, to accomodate additional capacity required for telenor,
this is a good read:

read the co channel interference, that's the reason telenor keeping the transmission power low, so that they can avoid interference with such high tower density



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psy13 said:

If Mobilink works in your area get the monthly package worth 380 rups on jazz prepaid. Credit rollover is possible before expiry. Or checkout the weekly packages. You can't get better than Mobilink which you are technically already on.

If you are trying to avoid Mobilink then your best choice would be to use Telenor.

Click to expand...

I tried the subscription code from my Warid SIM. It said 'Unknown application' or something like that. Any tips?

Also, I really like the idea of creating my own bundle. Do the minutes etc. from that kinda bundle carry over if I re-subscribe in time?

shaheerk said:

The My Djuice Offer might be of interest to you too: MY DJUICE OFFER

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Excellent options. If the above mobilink offer doesn't pan out, I'll look into changing networks.

If whatsapp is free, is it possible to use internet through some kind of vpn or proxy that goes through the whatsapp servers?

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murtaza12 said:

There could be other reasons for keeping transmission power low as well.

One of them being that 850 MHz 3G/4G interferes with 900 MHz GSM, and that I think is why the co-channel interference thing exists.

Another reason that auctioning Band 5 in Pakistan was a stupid idea because it is not meant to be used in the same market as the 900 band. Band 5 is used primarily in the US, and 900 MHz isn't used at all by cellular networks there, hence they don't have to worry about interference and transmit/receive filters on each BTS unlike Telenor.

Second reason would be what psy13 and shaheerk mentioned earlier. Social responsibility.
Their towers are probably lower (height) than those of other cellular networks and transmission power is also lower to reduce the harmful effects on humans from cell towers.

Sent from my SM-G935F

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yes, their could be, but their isn't anything about keeping the towers low to keep it humane, this is business!

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iNCEPTiON said:

Telenor 3G... No 4G yet..
Dhok Ratha Rawalpindi..
Avoid written Mobilink as sim 1 has it and opensignal picks that only and not Sim 2...

Mobilink 4G same location

Mobilink 3G same location

Sent from my Redmi Note 3 using Tapatalk

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I also bought new Telenor SIM today as my recently bought Zong wasn't even getting me good and stable 2G signals inside the house. Telenor is having stable and good signals inside my house. But unfortunately, Telenor doesn't have 4G in our area which their coverage map also shows. I get 3G as soon as i come out in the garage. I did a speed test and speed is also quite bad.



With this i concluded that Warid perform best in our area as i get full 2G coverage inside the house and 4G almost everywhere i travel in Rawalpindi including the garage of the house. The only problem which Warid gives me that why they deduct GPRS charges several times in a days even my mobile data is off and no data traffic is being used? This pisses me off. The only solution they provided me to deactivate my 4G/LTE service and get it active again whenever i want to use mobile internet. Can someone guide me about this?

[MENTION=136954]psy13[/MENTION]
[MENTION=63376]shaheerk[/MENTION]
[MENTION=42544]murtaza12[/MENTION]

ASKnASK said:

I tried the subscription code from my Warid SIM. It said 'Unknown application' or something like that. Any tips?

Also, I really like the idea of creating my own bundle. Do the minutes etc. from that kinda bundle carry over if I re-subscribe in time?



Excellent options. If the above mobilink offer doesn't pan out, I'll look into changing networks.

Click to expand...

Did you get the new Jazz/Warid sim? If not then you have to get the sim replacement and then u can get Mobilink packages...

Sani said:

I also bought new Telenor SIM today as my recently bought Zong wasn't even getting me good and stable 2G signals inside the house. Telenor is having stable and good signals inside my house. But unfortunately, Telenor doesn't have 4G in our area which their coverage map also shows. I get 3G as soon as i come out in the garage. I did a speed test and speed is also quite bad.

With this i concluded that Warid perform best in our area as i get full 2G coverage inside the house and 4G almost everywhere i travel in Rawalpindi including the garage of the house. The only problem which Warid gives me that why they deduct GPRS charges several times in a days even my mobile data is off and no data traffic is being used? This pisses me off. The only solution they provided me to deactivate my 4G/LTE service and get it active again whenever i want to use mobile internet. Can someone guide me about this?

[MENTION=136954]psy13[/MENTION]
[MENTION=63376]shaheerk[/MENTION]
[MENTION=42544]murtaza12[/MENTION]

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Just subscribe to any cheap Data bundle.. I am also facing that issue with my Warid Sim and I am thinking to subscribe for any cheap internet bundle...

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zakiuddin said:

[MENTION=63376]shaheerk[/MENTION] that my djuice offer is great, I am seriously considering this, I am fed up with jazz now, and the thing with low snr on telenor could be because they have to keep the transmission power low, so that neighbouring cells don't collide, this is the technique of frequency re-use, to accomodate additional capacity required for telenor,
this is a good read:

read the co channel interference, that's the reason telenor keeping the transmission power low, so that they can avoid interference with such high tower density

Click to expand...

Wait, I thought you were happy with Mobilink (or was it the billing?). If it's because of the billing, you could wait it out, because if Mobilink fixes it's billing, I'd opt for it.

You said you have Telenor functioning well in your area, which works for you, but in other areas, it's just average because of the SNR. And Telenor haven't reduced their cell power because of 3G - they had done it prior to the 3G auction. It's probably the easiest way to not just reduce power consumption on the towers, but also reduce cell size. What isn't written there (or is it? It may be, I'm typing using my phone) is that you need to reduce your tower size in order to avoid frequency clash - if you're using different frequencies, then interference is minimal, but if you're going to use one frequency, and not reduce the cell size, there is a strong possibility of a clash.

And reducing the power helps in these cases.

But because spectrum is reused, I don't think this method plays as important a role in reducing their cell size (because they were doing it in the pre-3G days as well).

I would rather have a usable data signal than a signal which penetrates concrete, but can't be used for data. And this is why I said for voice, you can't go wrong with both networks (excluding billing and pricing), but for data, you're better off with Mobilink, and Telenor as second priority (or Zong) if you don't have a choice.

murtaza12 said:

There could be other reasons for keeping transmission power low as well.

One of them being that 850 MHz 3G/4G interferes with 900 MHz GSM, and that I think is why the co-channel interference thing exists.

...

Second reason would be...
Their towers are probably lower (height) than those of other cellular networks and transmission power is also lower to reduce the harmful effects on humans from cell towers.

Click to expand...

5Mhz is not uncommon; it's just that it becomes insufficient eventually. Effectively, Telenor has 10Mhz for 3G, and 8 MHz for 4G (based on the way they've deployed it), which is similar to what the other operators have done it.

Social responsibility plays a role (Telenor actually emphasizes on it, and while [MENTION=130510]zakiuddin[/MENTION] is correct that "business is business", Telenor is still more vocal about environmental issues and whatnot) in this, but because the SNR is high (due to tower placement and tower power), no amount of spectrum can improve this ratio.

That is not to say I'm dissatisfied with Telenor, no, but I can get much higher speeds (and more frequently) on Mobilink.

As for harmful effects: the study is still inconclusive (but could very well be a reason)

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Mobilink 4G Motorway


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I have noticed something with Jazz.

On the postpaid packages website, there used to be written, "after usage of Rs. 2000, Internet usage will not be charged".

It's not there anymore.

Can anybody provide any insight?



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Mobilink 4G Kalar Kahar service area


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So low SNR is one reason, but I think I found another reason - but would like others, who are using Mobilink, to begin a download, and then share the screenshot of this app: Network Signal Guru - Android Apps on Google Play

Easy instructions:
1. Open the app. Make sure you can see all data on the screen (including SNR and whatnot) (if you're not rooted, some data may not be visible, but doesn't matter).
2. Start the speed test on Mobilink 3G.
3. Go back to the network app, and take a screenshot while the test is running (when you see that the speed has nearly peaked, take the screenshot quickly).

Paste it here, please. I don't have a Mobilink connection available at hand, else I'd have done it myself. I think, while SNR may play a role, there is another factor (because why can Mobilink get higher speeds even with low SNR?).

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Edit: simultaneous voice and data is working right now, in Islamabad. Weird.

alixora said:

Mobilink 4G Kalar Kahar service area

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Awesome speeds... Which ROM are u using on Redmi Note 3? Is it CM? Please inbox me the procedure of Rooting and installing it please

alixora said:

Mobilink 4G Motorway

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