[OT] .::The Official 3G/4G LTE Thread::.

Which 3G/4G is going best so far?


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zafarabbasrizvi

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Aug 24, 2016
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DIRBS is a joke. The guys at PTA are also a joke (who now say social media should be blocked to clamp down on blasphemy...). The spectrum guys are a joke.

I'm sort of on the side of [MENTION=136639]zafarabbasrizvi[/MENTION] on this one - except, what they've done in some European countries is sunset the 3G networks and retained 2G and 4G, whilst launching VoLTE.

If our operators (all four of them) can start mas VoLTE, then problem solved. They don't need to renew the 3G license.

But wait, 3G is not in the question - it's 2G and 4G. And if the QoS standards were not revised, I'm pretty sure operators wouldn't have this issue - since later on in the article, it says the rollout obligations and costs are a double whammy ("In this respect, the licensees’ persistent stance has been that the issue of quality of service and rollout obligations is dependent on the value of renewal fee of the licenses. This is mainly due to the fact that higher the license renewal fee, lesser the amount operators will be able to spend on infrastructure to meet minimum quality benchmarks.")

Price per megahertz for 900Mhz: $39.5M. 1800Mhz: $29.5M

Jazz has Warid (4.8) and Mobilink (7.6Mhz).
4G: 3Mhz (from 4.8Mhz - left with 1.8Mhz for 2G).
3G: 5Mhz (from 7.6Mhz - left with 2.6Mhz for 2G).
2G: 2.6Mhz + 1.8Mhz = 4.4Mhz.

If they dump Warid's holding, and convert their 3G to 4G (and shrink 4G down to 3Mhz so 4.6Mhz is reserved for 2G), then they could save $189.6M... but they'd only do this if they're actually serious about their voice call quality and VoLTE.

Telenor has 4.8Mhz (900Mhz) and 8.8Mhz (1800Mhz).
I don't think they have a lot of wiggle room.

Zong has 7.6Mhz (2G) and 22.6Mhz (1800Mhz).
They've got 2.6Mhz spare for 2G on 1800Mhz, which I've read they can't use (it was given to them as compensation) since their 900Mhz band is "dirty", especially near Lahore, so they can sunset those frequencies (they do use 900Mhz in most other places, IIRC). Besides, they have the largest proportion of 3G and 4G customers (around 50%, perhaps - I've stopped updating the numbers for some months now to check) so they could sunset their 2G network (since in the few places they've using CA, it's with 2100Mhz, and not 900Mhz). They could save $300.2 M. I don't think they use their 900Mhz spectrum at all, so they could be the biggest beneficiary of this dump.

Ufone have a lot of 3G sites on 900Mhz, but they're also choked in 1800Mhz (because of 4G) so they won't necessarily benefit. I've also noted that I tend to see more 3G sites on 900Mhz for Ufone than on 2100Mhz... so they could CA 2100Mhz and 1800Mhz for 4G? But then, why is Ufone still relevant?

Zong could benefit the most from this saved money and actually use it in their network. Or give it to me instead. Jazz could also benefit. But the other two operators are starved for spectrum.

---

In other news... wait, I'll make a separate post for that.
I think Jazz does not need to renew their Warid license at all.

Apart from Warid Jazz holds following spectrum

900 MHz= 7.6 MHz
1800 MHz=(10+6) 16 MHz
2100 MHz= 10 MHz

Now if they decided to dump Warid spectrum completely, they can go for following option very easily

2G= 6 MHz of 1800 MHz + 2.6 MHz of 900 MHz TOTAL 7.6 MHz for 2G

3G= 10 MHz of 2100 MHz DC-HSPA+

4G= 10 MHz in 1800 MHz and 5 MHz in 900 MHz CA 15 MHz


Their own 2G license will expire on 2024, so they have enough time to either dump 3G or 2G untill then. Moreover they can save 450 Million dollars and spend this money on infrastructure.


Talking about Zong, they have following spectrum if they decides not to renew

1800 MHz= 10 MHz

2100 MHz= 10 MHz

Zong has 30 Million customers. From that they have 12.5 Million 4G users, 8.5 Million 3G users and 9 Million 2G users. They only has 30% of their users on 2G, least in all operators. So they do not need more than 5 MHz for 2G users. Since their 3G users are decreasing every month from past few months and 4G customers are increasing. They can go for following option

2G= 5 MHz of 1800 MHz

3G= 5 MHz of 2100 MHz

4G= 5 MHz of 2100 MHz + 5 MHz of 1800 MHz


With this they can be not as fast as Jazz (which they already not) but with the pace they are converting 2G users to 3G/4G they can completely phase out 2G within couple of years and than refarm that 5 MHz of 1800 MHz of 2G for 4G and their deployment will be like

3G= 5 MHz

4G= 10 MHz of 1800 MHz + 5 MHz of 2100 MHz TOTAL CA 15 MHz.


Jazz's 4G customer base will cross Zong's within 3-4 months and soon their 4G speed will no longer as fast as it is now. So after 2 years Jazz and Zong will be even in 4G speed.


Unfortunately Telenor and Ufone missed their train when they opt for only 5 MHz of 3G spectrum in 2014. Ufone also did suicide by not getting additional spectrum for 4G as well. Future is tough for both companies

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zakiuddin

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May 28, 2015
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[MENTION=63376]shaheerk[/MENTION] [MENTION=136639]zafarabbasrizvi[/MENTION]

One thing you both missing that 900 MHz is a superior spectrum, they will never let go of it, otherwise telenor will rise much ahead of them,

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shaheerk

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Feb 5, 2013
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[MENTION=63376]shaheerk[/MENTION] [MENTION=136639]zafarabbasrizvi[/MENTION]

One thing you both missing that 900 MHz is a superior spectrum, they will never let go of it, otherwise telenor will rise much ahead of them,

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True, but only if utilized properly does it become valuable. It's good for providing basic coverage, but it's always augmented with a higher band signal (because the available spectrum in 900Mhz is limited anyway).

Besides, the existing operators aren't using it in an optimum manner.

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zafarabbasrizvi

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Aug 24, 2016
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[MENTION=63376]shaheerk[/MENTION] [MENTION=136639]zafarabbasrizvi[/MENTION]

One thing you both missing that 900 MHz is a superior spectrum, they will never let go of it, otherwise telenor will rise much ahead of them,

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True. But Jazz has 7.6 MHz spectrum in 900 MHz till 2024. So they can survive without 4.8 MHz of Warid's spectrum.

Less 2G Zong is already doing great in 3G and 4G without 900 MHz. Their 900 MHz is also faulty.

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devnull

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2G will live on in the shape of IoT devices. There's also a case to be made for 2G being the gateway through which you rope in new low income customers who will eventually upgrade to your faster services. So they can't get rid of 2G completely. What they can do is get rid of 3G. Other countries have done this. 2G is your basic connectivity while 4G is for anyone who wants something faster. 3G is not needed. It was just a stop gap technology.
 

zafarabbasrizvi

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Aug 24, 2016
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2G will live on in the shape of IoT devices. There's also a case to be made for 2G being the gateway through which you rope in new low income customers who will eventually upgrade to your faster services. So they can't get rid of 2G completely. What they can do is get rid of 3G. Other countries have done this. 2G is your basic connectivity while 4G is for anyone who wants something faster. 3G is not needed. It was just a stop gap technology.
Agree. Zong has 12.5 Million 4G customers and around 8 Million 3G customers. 3G customers are decreasing every month and converting to 4G. 2G customers shifting to faster services are also going for 4G services instead of 3G because every new smartphone coming now is 4G capable on both sim slots.

And if in couple of years Zong's 3G base comes down to 3 Million, they can switch off 3G easily. Same is the case with other operators specially Jazz. Their 3G customers are also decreasing and shifting to 4G.

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zakiuddin

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I agree with your points [MENTION=63376]shaheerk[/MENTION] [MENTION=136639]zafarabbasrizvi[/MENTION]

But look what's telenor is doing with their 5mhz 850, they are covering rural areas with this band on 4g, so it is very cost effective, even only 5mhz in 900 is the best option to cover highways and rural areas with 4g coverage, which is very good.

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zafarabbasrizvi

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Aug 24, 2016
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I agree with your points [MENTION=63376]shaheerk[/MENTION] [MENTION=136639]zafarabbasrizvi[/MENTION]

But look what's telenor is doing with their 5mhz 850, they are covering rural areas with this band on 4g, so it is very cost effective, even only 5mhz in 900 is the best option to cover highways and rural areas with 4g coverage, which is very good.

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Agree. But Zong has already covered those mass areas and highways by using 1800 MHz with the help of 14000+ 4G cell sites. And Jazz has 7.6 MHz of its own in 900 MHz.


But but but apparently all three companies are going to renew their licenses. They will try to lower down prices by going to court. Otherwise they have to pay $450 million.

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shaheerk

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Feb 5, 2013
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I agree with your points [MENTION=63376]shaheerk[/MENTION] [MENTION=136639]zafarabbasrizvi[/MENTION]

But look what's telenor is doing with their 5mhz 850, they are covering rural areas with this band on 4g, so it is very cost effective, even only 5mhz in 900 is the best option to cover highways and rural areas with 4g coverage, which is very good.

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It's one thing to provide coverage. It's another to have it usable.

Not saying Telenor isn't usable - but sometimes, you have to weigh your opinions. Heck, operators think every nook and cranny in Pakistan under their coverage is usable, and we all know the reality.

As for 2G/3G sunset, well - AT&T have turned off their 2G network. 3G has a far greater capacity for calls and data vs. 2G, so even with limited spectrum, 3G would perform much better than 2G. As for machines and all, I don't know why they're sticking to 2G networks - unless there's an option to connect these devices via WiFi and use a dongle to provide 4G wifi signals?

See https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2G for a list of networks that have shut down (or announced the shut down of) their 2G networks.

Another website says Telenor (Pakistan) will shut down their 2G network in 2023 (and Grameenphpne in BD will shut it down in 2025).

https://www-emnify-com.cdn.ampproje...tps://www.emnify.com/blog/global-2g-phase-out

Perhaps this is why calls on Telenor don't seem to drop down to 2G as often - in anticipation/preparation for this move?

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zakiuddin

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It's one thing to provide coverage. It's another to have it usable.

Not saying Telenor isn't usable - but sometimes, you have to weigh your opinions. Heck, operators think every nook and cranny in Pakistan under their coverage is usable, and we all know the reality.

As for 2G/3G sunset, well - AT&T have turned off their 2G network. 3G has a far greater capacity for calls and data vs. 2G, so even with limited spectrum, 3G would perform much better than 2G. As for machines and all, I don't know why they're sticking to 2G networks - unless there's an option to connect these devices via WiFi and use a dongle to provide 4G wifi signals?

See https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2G for a list of networks that have shut down (or announced the shut down of) their 2G networks.

Another website says Telenor (Pakistan) will shut down their 2G network in 2023 (and Grameenphpne in BD will shut it down in 2025).

https://www-emnify-com.cdn.ampproje...tps://www.emnify.com/blog/global-2g-phase-out

Perhaps this is why calls on Telenor don't seem to drop down to 2G as often - in anticipation/preparation for this move?

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Telenor should shutdown 2g and divert efforts to 4g,
And telenor 5mhz 4g is pretty usable, considering the load on it, as I am continuesly getting 35mbps on it

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zafarabbasrizvi

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Aug 24, 2016
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Telenor should shutdown 2g and divert efforts to 4g,
And telenor 5mhz 4g is pretty usable, considering the load on it, as I am continuesly getting 35mbps on it

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Telenor's 5 MHz 4G which runs on 850 MHz is usable only in rural areas, in big cities specially here in Faisalabad their 4G is worst than their 3G. It get affected badly by concrete and electricity poles. 5 MHz also face congestion in big cities where they still haven't deployed CA with 1800 MHz. My experience with Telenor recently (2 months ago) was very bad in Faisalabad and Lahore. It failed even loading 360p videos on youtube.
Even Ufone 3G performs better than their 4G (only if Ufone has better data packages)

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shaheerk

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Feb 5, 2013
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Telenor's 5 MHz 4G which runs on 850 MHz is usable only in rural areas, in big cities specially here in Faisalabad their 4G is worst than their 3G. It get affected badly by concrete and electricity poles. 5 MHz also face congestion in big cities where they still haven't deployed CA with 1800 MHz. My experience with Telenor recently (2 months ago) was very bad in Faisalabad and Lahore. It failed even loading 360p videos on youtube.
Even Ufone 3G performs better than their 4G (only if Ufone has better data packages)

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Not all phones support carrier aggregation (the Nokia 6.1 plus doesn't - for instance).

That said, Telenor's 3G works better than their 4G...

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murtaza12

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Not all phones support carrier aggregation (the Nokia 6.1 plus doesn't - for instance).

That said, Telenor's 3G works better than their 4G...

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Stupid Nokia being stupid. The chipset itself supports 3CA, but Nokia has it disabled for specific regions I believe. Not sure why considering it doesn't affect the phone in anyway if they just leave it enabled. If not 3, then just 2CA like the 7 Plus.

The Nokia 7 Plus which has a slightly different chipset (SDM660) also supports 3CA, but Nokia has limited it to 2CA only.
 

shaheerk

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Stupid Nokia being stupid. The chipset itself supports 3CA, but Nokia has it disabled for specific regions I believe. Not sure why considering it doesn't affect the phone in anyway if they just leave it enabled. If not 3, then just 2CA like the 7 Plus.

The Nokia 7 Plus which has a slightly different chipset (SDM660) also supports 3CA, but Nokia has limited it to 2CA only.
Probably licensing costs. The modem may support features but companies have to pay up to Qualcomm to use specific features. If it's a mid-range phone they're marketing, they don't expect you to have a postpaid connection and use 2xCA and enjoy super fast speeds, because hail corporates!

Sometimes, an OTA is issued to enable specific hardware features but I doubt Nokia will do that. Ever.

I quickly scourged the net if the Galaxy A50 supports CA - I couldn't find anything. It does apparently in the US, but that's a different chipset, and they have different bands in the US as well - so perhaps [MENTION=136639]zafarabbasrizvi[/MENTION] is unfortunately stuck without the feature (since I couldn't find much info).

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murtaza12

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Probably licensing costs. The modem may support features but companies have to pay up to Qualcomm to use specific features. If it's a mid-range phone they're marketing, they don't expect you to have a postpaid connection and use 2xCA and enjoy super fast speeds, because hail corporates!

Sometimes, an OTA is issued to enable specific hardware features but I doubt Nokia will do that. Ever.

I quickly scourged the net if the Galaxy A50 supports CA - I couldn't find anything. It does apparently in the US, but that's a different chipset, and they have different bands in the US as well - so perhaps [MENTION=136639]zafarabbasrizvi[/MENTION] is unfortunately stuck without the feature (since I couldn't find much info).

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Both the A50 (Exynos 9610) and A70 (SDM675) support CA. Confirmed in ISB when they were both showing 4G+ on Jazz.
 

zafarabbasrizvi

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Aug 24, 2016
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Probably licensing costs. The modem may support features but companies have to pay up to Qualcomm to use specific features. If it's a mid-range phone they're marketing, they don't expect you to have a postpaid connection and use 2xCA and enjoy super fast speeds, because hail corporates!

Sometimes, an OTA is issued to enable specific hardware features but I doubt Nokia will do that. Ever.

I quickly scourged the net if the Galaxy A50 supports CA - I couldn't find anything. It does apparently in the US, but that's a different chipset, and they have different bands in the US as well - so perhaps [MENTION=136639]zafarabbasrizvi[/MENTION] is unfortunately stuck without the feature (since I couldn't find much info).

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Galaxy A50 uses Exynos 9610, which is a home baked chipset by samsung. And according to its specifications it supports 3CA for downloading and 2CA for uploading. Since it is Samsung's self made chipset, they don't need to disable a CA due to licensing fee issue. And if the decided to do it any way in Pakistani variant, they might have restricted it to 2CA instead of 3CA.

And PTA has only shuffled Jazz's 1800 spectrum in RWP/ISL only. And Jazz has not deployed LTE+ services anywhere else than twin cities, so how can my Galaxy A50 catches LTE+ in Faisalabad? Same goes for Telenor.


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shaheerk

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Screenshot text is not readable when uploading the image, gotta upload it to somewhere and share link which I don't wanna do, Lol

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Read it aloud, in that case. Lol.
[MENTION=136639]zafarabbasrizvi[/MENTION], OEMs may make chips, but it's not always the case they enable all features for everyone - for business considerations. They want money. [MENTION=42544]murtaza12[/MENTION] said your phone model does support CA though.

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