[OT] .::The Official 3G/4G LTE Thread::.

[zakiuddin]

I know Zong didn't jump around much - it was consistent. Same goes for Jazz. But thanks for your response.

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i really want telenor to be back in the game, thats now mandatory, telenor got real dense network layed out in khi, which helps them out very much with the better speeds all around even with the cheapest packages, here take a look at telenor 4g at this peak time, besides in khi atleast they have pretty decent 4g coverage, the phone never turns to 3g

edit: the two results on top are of 4g, rest are public wifi XDDD

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[shaheerk]

[MENTION=63376]shaheerk[/MENTION]

Well, that was underwhelming. When I saw the Gmail notification saying Telenor Band 3, I was expecting something along the lines of 20-30 Mbps.

I don't think it's 5 MHz since [MENTION=4474]ShuAK[/MENTION] who is in I-8/2 checked Telenor Band 3 LTE and they're only using 3 MHz there.

It could vary depending on the location (Zong doesn't use 15Mhz in Jinnah Super - they've kept it to 10Mhz there,and last time I recall, their speeds were 4Mbps there on 4G). 3Mhz doesn't give you more than 22Mbps (maybe 20Mbps if we're to account for real world losses) download speeds - but considering we're usually hitting 10-12Mbps anyway on 5 or 15Mhz networks, it won't really make a lot of difference.

I say this because with 5Mhz, I've hit 37Mbps speeds (in Gulrez), but that was at a specific spot. Otherwise, in everyday usage, it doesn't go beyond 15Mbps, at best.

See LTE Peak Capacity Explained: How to Calculate it? - Frank Rayal and look for the charts where it says 2x2 MIMO, and then look at the spectrum (x axis). That's relevant for us.

In the end, in real world usage, it looks like all the operators are similar. It's in fringe cases where you can hit 97Mbps, but the way these tower's are deployed means you won't have a distortion-free signal in almost every place (and I remember Zong, in general cases, didn't go beyond 10-15Mbps either).

If Telenor performed CA, they might be able to improve the throughput (because instead of one contiguous chunk of spectrum, you're essentially maintaining multiple connections - and since they're all on different frequencies, the throughout would be different vs. aggregation on the same band/frequency, because different frequencies propagate differently - *I THINK*). But since they're not, your benefit would be 3G signals everywhere (they really do have poor 2G signals, but it's okay since you have 3G everywhere) and 4G in some spots.

I wonder why they've got band 3 signals in a number of places all of a sudden, rather than expanding more band 5 4G signals everywhere... It doesn't make sense why they're preferring band 3 over expanding band 5.

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[shaheerk]

i really want telenor to be back in the game, thats now mandatory

I do too.

I hated them back in 2011 after a really sour experience, but they're trying. And somebody trying is better than someone who can't be bothered to fix their internet routing, billing, and lack of a smartphone app (the Veon app - does it let you manage your account and subscriptions as well as, say, the Zong or Telenor apps, the latter which I consider as the gold standard?).

But you hit the nail on the head - they have a dense(r) network within the city (I rarely remember Telenor falling down to 2G whilst on a call, unlike Zong which fell down after a few minutes, and oddly, Mobilink does the same thing still! I don't know the situation with Telenor). And my understanding of radio frequencies has given me a better understanding of what to expect from cellular networks (and be less idealistic).

If I didn't have this employee package, I'd probably give them another try again. I did back then, and accepted them to be an alternate plan B (and their 3G band 5 was starting to get deployed back then). I just don't know how their coverage is in a few other spots - but I'll only know if I were to use them on a daily basis.

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[ShuAK]

I was in E9 Naval Colony adjacent to Air University today so checked there about Telenor Band 3 and yes it was present there too with bandwidth of 3mhz as usual. I think they are preparing to deploy band 3 or CA maybe.

 

[shaheerk]

Small update:

I say this because with 5Mhz, I've hit 37Mbps speeds (in Gulrez), but that was at a specific spot. Otherwise, in everyday usage, it doesn't go beyond 15Mbps, at best.

I think you're right - it probably is 3Mhz. The upload speeds aren't the same as 5Mhz upload speeds. Good thing the download speeds were average (as good/bad as Mobilink's - but then, I only tested it at one location, so it's hardly a fair test).

If Telenor performed CA, they might be able to improve the throughput (because instead of one contiguous chunk of spectrum, you're essentially maintaining multiple connections - and since they're all on different frequencies, the throughout would be different vs. aggregation on the same band/frequency, because different frequencies propagate differently - *I THINK*).

Did some research. And this is true.
Two sources:
- source 1: http://home.eps.hw.ac.uk/~fsh12/LTE_CA.pdf (a bit technical, so I skipped the maths but understood the gist).
- source 2: Carrier Aggregation explained (see the brief text below figure 3).

Source 2 says "Different component carriers can be planned to provide different coverage, i.e. different cell size. In the case of inter-band carrier aggregation the component carriers will experience different pathloss, which increases with increasing frequency."

I decided to read more on the path loss (which is a consequence of buildings and other obstructions - but a more technical term for SNR, if you will), and came across source 1, which essentially says:
- page 2: under the heading of non-contiguous CA, it says "The radio channel characteristics such as path loss, building penetration loss and Doppler shift will vary significantly at different frequency bands which cause large differences on the received power". In other words, CA in different bands will help increase the throughput.
- page 3: didn't make sense because it was all mathematical calculations. Skipped.
- page 4: experimented with CA on different frequencies and spectrums: 10 Mhz @ 800Mhz and 20Mhz @ 2600Mhz. Even though bandwidth is doubled on 2.6Ghz, the speed throughput only increased by 50% (there's a graph) because it's "...mainly due to the higher path loss at 2.6 GHz" (poor penetration and speeds, unless you're next to the transmitter) and "the spectral efficiency of 10 MHz at 800 MHz outperforms the 20 MHz at 2.6 GHz although it is half the bandwidth."
- The interesting bit? They did another experiment: 10Mhz @ 800Mhz and 10Mhz @ 2.6Ghz (both same b/w, unlike the previous experiment). "Fig. 4 shows that the cell throughput with aggregation of 10 MHz at 800 MHz and 10 MHz at 2.6 GHz is 50% higher compared to single 20 MHz carrier at 2.6 GHz due to frequency diversity." My suspicions were right - an increase in the contiguous spectrum in only one band benefits the end-user when they're receiving stellar signals.
- this is the important bit: "This is due to high path loss at 2.6 GHz and high building penetration loss. On the other hand, the users located near the eNodeB have higher throughput at 2.6 GHz..." when 2.6Ghz has 20Mhz vs. 10 Mhz of 800 MHz "...sincethey can access to larger bandwidth at good signal levels."..."As shown in Fig. 5 the user throughput ... with CA in the coverage area is superior compared to single band operation using the same total bandwidths due to multi-diversity gain."

These are your answers, boys and girls (do we have any girls here?). Telenor, in this case, does have a fighting chance if those ludicrous lunatics implement CA, since signal quality isn't strong everywhere - so this might give them similar level of performance, or even better in some cases vs. Zong or Mobilink.

Who's excited?

 

[muhdttahir]

Small update:


I think you're right - it probably is 3Mhz. The upload speeds aren't the same as 5Mhz upload speeds. Good thing the download speeds were average (as good/bad as Mobilink's - but then, I only tested it at one location, so it's hardly a fair test).



Did some research. And this is true.
Two sources:
- source 1: http://home.eps.hw.ac.uk/~fsh12/LTE_CA.pdf (a bit technical, so I skipped the maths but understood the gist).
- source 2: Carrier Aggregation explained (see the brief text below figure 3).

Source 2 says "Different component carriers can be planned to provide different coverage, i.e. different cell size. In the case of inter-band carrier aggregation the component carriers will experience different pathloss, which increases with increasing frequency."

I decided to read more on the path loss (which is a consequence of buildings and other obstructions - but a more technical term for SNR, if you will), and came across source 1, which essentially says:
- page 2: under the heading of non-contiguous CA, it says "The radio channel characteristics such as path loss, building penetration loss and Doppler shift will vary significantly at different frequency bands which cause large differences on the received power". In other words, CA in different bands will help increase the throughput.
- page 3: didn't make sense because it was all mathematical calculations. Skipped.
- page 4: experimented with CA on different frequencies and spectrums: 10 Mhz @ 800Mhz and 20Mhz @ 2600Mhz. Even though bandwidth is doubled on 2.6Ghz, the speed throughput only increased by 50% (there's a graph) because it's "...mainly due to the higher path loss at 2.6 GHz" (poor penetration and speeds, unless you're next to the transmitter) and "the spectral efficiency of 10 MHz at 800 MHz outperforms the 20 MHz at 2.6 GHz although it is half the bandwidth."
- The interesting bit? They did another experiment: 10Mhz @ 800Mhz and 10Mhz @ 2.6Ghz (both same b/w, unlike the previous experiment). "Fig. 4 shows that the cell throughput with aggregation of 10 MHz at 800 MHz and 10 MHz at 2.6 GHz is 50% higher compared to single 20 MHz carrier at 2.6 GHz due to frequency diversity." My suspicions were right - an increase in the contiguous spectrum in only one band benefits the end-user when they're receiving stellar signals.
- this is the important bit: "This is due to high path loss at 2.6 GHz and high building penetration loss. On the other hand, the users located near the eNodeB have higher throughput at 2.6 GHz..." when 2.6Ghz has 20Mhz vs. 10 Mhz of 800 MHz "...sincethey can access to larger bandwidth at good signal levels."..."As shown in Fig. 5 the user throughput ... with CA in the coverage area is superior compared to single band operation using the same total bandwidths due to multi-diversity gain."

These are your answers, boys and girls (do we have any girls here?). Telenor, in this case, does have a fighting chance if those ludicrous lunatics implement CA, since signal quality isn't strong everywhere - so this might give them similar level of performance, or even better in some cases vs. Zong or Mobilink.

Who's excited?

man, you have a lot of free time...!
I get great signals on Telenor in areas that still don't have 2G ZONG & 3G Mobilink coverage. Performance on Telenor is pretty bad though.
Has anyone wondered our present quality of internet may be due to just how cheap our internet is and just how heavily these companies are taxed? I mean, you guys can't keep putting absolute blame on them when they have just shelled out so much for just a few more spectrum.
Low prices + heavy taxation --> less overall profit --> lower quality of services.
Pakistan has one of the cheapest prices for data, so be grateful!

 

[shaheerk]

man, you have a lot of free time...!

Sometimes. Sometimes I get carried away. Like I did this time.

I get great signals on Telenor in areas that still don't have 2G ZONG & 3G Mobilink coverage. Performance on Telenor is pretty bad though.

In what way? Do you have any speedtests? Are you testing inside the building, or outside? There are quite a number of variables involved.

Has anyone wondered our present quality of internet may be due to just how cheap our internet is and just how heavily these companies are taxed? I mean, you guys can't keep putting absolute blame on them when they have just shelled out so much for just a few more spectrum.
Low prices + heavy taxation --> less overall profit --> lower quality of services.
Pakistan has one of the cheapest prices for data, so be grateful!

Poor internet doesn't exactly have anything to do with taxes. If you were to use the phone next to the base station, your internet would work wonderfully. Coverage, on the other hand, has everything to do with the return on investments. Additional spectrum makes no sense if your coverage still has holes in them, or if it's not "clean" - so its best if operators use CA so that different frequencies, when combined to widen the spectrum, can give better throughput vs. one frequency with a wide spectrum which won't necessarily help.

Quality of services in Pakistan isn't bad - it's customer support which isn't up to the mark. PTCL's customer support is crap (their internet works fine where their infrastructure is decent). Nayatel has good customer support (but that's an exception). Telenor and Mobilink have an active social media presence, and you can even complain to them via Twitter DM, but Telenor allows its customers to live chat with them, or email them (whereas Mobilink doesn't bother responding to emails, and there's no chat). Zong also has social media presence and responds to emails, but no live chat. And when you're away from 3/4G coverage on Zong, good luck trying to use EDGE (because it doesn't work AT ALL unlike Telenor or Mobilink, who have 2G data working where there's signals).

So it's a matter of customer support. The same goes for other institutions. Restaurants have decent food, but it's all crap if their customer service is lacking.

 

[masters1001]

Zong 4G @ Nawabshah

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[Adil]

zong 3g

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[Adil]

Zong 4g

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[zafarabbasrizvi]

zong 3g

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Zong 4g

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Irony is both speeds are more than benchmarked speed of PTA for 3G and 4G. So you can not complaint

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[khanorak]

3G speeds across all Telcos have deteriorated consistently. Whether that means 3G tech adoption has increased among the masses or the quality of equipment is unsatisfactory; I think the former.

4G is also being dragged down w.r.t average speeds.

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[murtaza12]

[MENTION=63376]shaheerk[/MENTION] How bad are Zong 3G/4G signals in Gulrez? My friend lives in Street 6, or Street 3, I don't remember, but it's fairly close to the gate that's right next to Safari Hospital, and any time you try and call him, 4 times out of 5 the call will disconnect or be completely silent in which case we have to hang up anyway.

This happens whenever me or any of my other friends call him. The voice quality is pathetic, keeps cutting, these weird robotic noises come in sometimes, and usually he can hear me but his audio doesn't make it across most of the time, so it's mostly me just yelling into the phone and getting broken up responses in return.

I tried calling him from my Zong number, terrible voice quality, didn't check whether I was on 2G or 3G, but either way, neither of us could hear each other. I told him to go stand outside in his driveway so the signals improve, I went to the part of my house where Zong works the best, and it was still crap.

I called him from my Mobiilnk number and it sounded like we were right next to each other. Fantastic sound quailty, never disconnected and the call went on for around 10 minutes with no issues.

The reason I didn't call him from my Mobilink number in the first place was because I was expecting a call on it and I didn't want the person calling me to hear the 'busy' message so I called from the Zong number. Big mistake. Why do I even have that SIM? The call quality is trash, the 4G is never higher than 3 Mbps regardless of whether I am 600 ft underground or my phone is glued to the antenna on the tower. Terrible performance all around and the 3 times that I have complained to Zong, the complaints were never valid because:
1) The speed is higher than the ridiculous benchmark set by PTA which is like 2 Mbps or something
2) There are no complaints from any other users in my area, so it MUST be my device that doesn't work properly

Little do they know I've tested that shit SIM in like 8 different phones, result is the same on every one.

 

[shaheerk]

@shaheerk How bad are Zong 3G/4G signals in Gulrez? My friend lives in Street 6, or Street 3, I don't remember, but it's fairly close to the gate that's right next to Safari Hospital, and any time you try and call him, 4 times out of 5 the call will disconnect or be completely silent in which case we have to hang up anyway.

This happens whenever me or any of my other friends call him. The voice quality is pathetic, keeps cutting, these weird robotic noises come in sometimes, and usually he can hear me but his audio doesn't make it across most of the time, so it's mostly me just yelling into the phone and getting broken up responses in return.

I tried calling him from my Zong number, terrible voice quality, didn't check whether I was on 2G or 3G, but either way, neither of us could hear each other. I told him to go stand outside in his driveway so the signals improve, I went to the part of my house where Zong works the best, and it was still crap.

I called him from my Mobiilnk number and it sounded like we were right next to each other. Fantastic sound quailty, never disconnected and the call went on for around 10 minutes with no issues.

The reason I didn't call him from my Mobilink number in the first place was because I was expecting a call on it and I didn't want the person calling me to hear the 'busy' message so I called from the Zong number. Big mistake. Why do I even have that SIM? The call quality is trash, the 4G is never higher than 3 Mbps regardless of whether I am 600 ft underground or my phone is glued to the antenna on the tower. Terrible performance all around and the 3 times that I have complained to Zong, the complaints were never valid because:
1) The speed is higher than the ridiculous benchmark set by PTA which is like 2 Mbps or something
2) There are no complaints from any other users in my area, so it MUST be my device that doesn't work properly

Little do they know I've tested that shit SIM in like 8 different phones, result is the same on every one.

That's odd - in Gulrez, Zong is generally decent (at least where my house is, since we get signals from the water tower or from the market opposite Bahria's entrance). But as for the Safari Hospital area - I don't know if it's bad there, but it SHOULDN'T be - because last I remember, when I was in Safari Villas, 4G was crap, but as I approached the hospital, speeds boosted significantly.

Either
- there's some temporary issue with Zong (really no way of checking this),
- your friend doesn't get good signals (but considering even I don't in my room, I do get some signals in the rest of the house and can hold a conversation without the call dropping), or
- there's something with your house and Zong.

I think it's the last two cases - you first ask me how are Zong's signals in Gulrez because you and your friends can't hold a decent call with your friend (so I'm assuming your friend has Zong), but then you also say that Zong wasn't working well with you in your house as well and proceeded to call him via your Mobilink number, and it went through fine - so this means there wasn't an issue with your friend's reception, but with your reception (that's what I understand - I think you might want to clarify a bit more).

A little thing about 3G: you can place a call even with 1 bar - it'll sound as good (in most cases) as it does with 4 bars. And even if you have 4 bars, you can witness garbling if there are trees or other disturbances around (happens with Mobilink, and outside my office building, while I'm walking towards my car - it's not jarring, but I can tell that there's a garble or two - which is normal, because on 2G, the effects of poor signal would be significantly amplified). If you were on 2G, then you'd have a problem and would need ~97dBm (MINIMUM) to hold a conversation - because there's no guarantee it'll be fine below that (it may or may not work, unlike 3G where voice would still work 95% of the time even on lower signals).

As for Zong - I know it doesn't make sense, but operators say "try replacing your SIM card" when you report them connectivity/speed issues. I never understood the logic... but that said, perhaps where/when you test, you're just in some unlucky spots (except Bahria Town, which is one big unlucky spot for Zong 4G)? Because these guys generally have towers almost everywhere, and more towers than Mobilink, so it should work fairly well. Still not sure why you're experiencing what you're experiencing - maybe try Telenor?

I can say for sure Zong's voice and data works fine in Gulrez. (edit: fine = usable, since fast = dependent on your signal to the tower)

 

[murtaza12]

- there's some temporary issue with Zong (really no way of checking this)

Definitely not this one, the issue has been affecting him for as long as I can remember.

- your friend doesn't get good signals (but considering even I don't in my room, I do get some signals in the rest of the house and can hold a conversation without the call dropping), or

He doesn't get 4G at all unless he stands outside, and his 3G for calls and data is barely usable inside (1 or 2 bars), and everyone who has Zong knows that their 2G doesn't ever work.

- there's something with your house and Zong.

There is something with my house (or just Bahria in general) with Zong 4G, their 3G at my house is great (for data, not for calls), proof is provided at the end of this post.

I think it's the last two cases - you first ask me how are Zong's signals in Gulrez because you and your friends can't hold a decent call with your friend (so I'm assuming your friend has Zong),

Yes, he does have Zong. As do most of my friends, with the exception of this one guy who I convinced to ditch Ufone and port to Jazz.

but then you also say that Zong wasn't working well with you in your house as well and proceeded to call him via your Mobilink number, and it went through fine - so this means there wasn't an issue with your friend's reception, but with your reception (that's what I understand - I think you might want to clarify a bit more).

I'm just assuming Zong wasn't working well for me since the guy on the other end said he was standing outside now and I was standing in a spot where Zong usually performs decently.
Calls however were taking oddly long to connect and start ringing, but when I tried from Mobilink, it went through instantly with great sound quality as well.

A little thing about 3G: you can place a call even with 1 bar - it'll sound as good (in most cases) as it does with 4 bars. And even if you have 4 bars, you can witness garbling if there are trees or other disturbances around (happens with Mobilink, and outside my office building, while I'm walking towards my car - it's not jarring, but I can tell that there's a garble or two - which is normal, because on 2G, the effects of poor signal would be significantly amplified).

Placing a call from my basement where Mobilink 3G goes down to 1 or 2 bars usually is surprisingly good, however I've only tried when calling other Mobilink numbers.
But with that guy, placing a call from Zong with 1 bar of 3G, or 4 bars of 3G is always horrible, unless it switches to 2G (for him) during the call, and Zong is using 1800 MHz 2G in Bahria, but only 1 MHz of it since the remaining 15 is for LTE.

As for Zong - I know it doesn't make sense, but operators say "try replacing your SIM card" when you report them connectivity/speed issues. I never understood the logic... but that said, perhaps where/when you test, you're just in some unlucky spots (except Bahria Town, which is one big unlucky spot for Zong 4G)? Because these guys generally have towers almost everywhere, and more towers than Mobilink, so it should work fairly well. Still not sure why you're experiencing what you're experiencing - maybe try Telenor?

Telenor's data is borderline unusable and their packages don't seem very attractive either.

Aha! I finally did it, as difficult as it was, managed to get Zong below 1 Mbps for 4G, will drop them an email tomorrow and see what they have to say about this.

Zong 4G:

Spoiler: show

This is their 3G at the same location:

Spoiler: show

Then this is a random Mobilink test, without prior checking of SINR (which is what I usually do, but the average user obviously wouldn't).

Mobilink 3G, truly disappointing compared to what it used to be before the merger

Spoiler: show

Mobilink 4G, embarassing.

Spoiler: show

These guys need to get their focus off of their goofy cricket matches and actually get ISB/RWP done with these much needed upgrades. They said mid October first and there's just over a week left before October ends as well and I'm pretty sure these guys will have done absolutely nothing about it. I doubt they'll get anything done at this rate if they plan to upgrade the entire country by the end of 2017.

 

[shaheerk]

[MENTION=42544]murtaza12[/MENTION]

Zong: well - I honestly don't know. I wasn't even suggesting data calls for Zong, but if your friend isn't able to hold a decent conversation on Zong on simple voice, then he really must live in a faraday's cage - or some other interference blocking his signals. Perhaps get him to port out? As for complaining to Zong: good luck. I think they'll just say "thora kaam ho raha hai" and eventually, they'll say "is se zyada behtar ho nahin sakta" (because they said that to me once when I complained to them about Bahria).

Telenor: their 4G signals aren't everywhere, but they do work where you have signal. 3G isn't too bad either (because they have a lot of towers covering the areas). They're probably no worse than Mobilink since Mobilink's 3G speeds aren't DC everywhere anyway.

Mobilink: as I said, their 3G speeds aren't DC everywhere - I think they either reverted, or just didn't bother upgrading their entire network to DC (which, I think, is the case, since I remember witnessing slow 3G speeds on Rawal Road, which were as good or bad as Telenor's). But I honestly think we're giving Telenor 3G more flak than it deserves (but they definitely deserve flak for their 4G coverage).

Given all of this, if I ever get sick of Mobilink (which I am inching closer towards because they're so "raw" and unpolished and unfinished, yet call themselves a digital company...), or if I don't get to stick to their employee package (or both), I'll try Telenor for two additional months. If I'm not satisfied, I might move back to Zong... but knowing how Telenor is using band 5 to their advantage (for 3G only), I think they've done some improvement. Just need them to fix their 4G coverage. The fact that Mobilink doesn't have DC HSPA+ everywhere makes its 3G as fast as Telenor's (really! Not joking - besides, since Telenor has more 3G towers in more places, there would be fewer spots where they have coverage holes vs. Mobilink who have far fewer 3G towers - but can overcome speed shortages only in some areas where they have DC HSPA+ - which isn't everywhere).

 

[zakiuddin]

why is mobilink turning off DC-HSPA+ ? I used to 22mbps on my roof, but now i never cross 10-11 mbps [MENTION=63376]shaheerk[/MENTION]


btw mobilink 3g indoors and on phone, thats how much they have improved for me, look for the pings too

 

[shaheerk]

why is mobilink turning off DC-HSPA+ ? I used to 22mbps on my roof, but now i never cross 10-11 mbps [MENTION=63376]shaheerk[/MENTION]

No idea.

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[Jasir]

How do you guys switch to 3G or 4G by your choice? I just turn on the mobile data and relay on it -.- and I aint gonna recharge that shitty overloaded Zong Device..

 

[zakiuddin]

How do you guys switch to 3G or 4G by your choice? I just turn on the mobile data and relay on it -.- and I aint gonna recharge that shitty overloaded Zong Device..

their is the option to change the network in devices as well as mobile phones!

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