You're overthinking it.So, I watched the whole damn spoilercast.
Spoiler: showFuck Drunkmann still!!!
It's like, just to make a sequel out of MGS 4, some random hick bludgeons Old Snake *who is happily retired & is enjoying his normal civil human life* to death, in front of Sunny & then she goes on a rampage to avenge him!
You don't treat these characters like that. Tlou 2 as a game is fantastic, it's ND after all BUT I absolutely hate it at the same time.
The End. (sm1)
Seems like you are coming up with confusing non existing hypothetical scenarios. And I am confused lol.Fitting that someone who openly didn't understand the plot and characterizations calls it a 'Teenage Romcom Zombie Drama.' :clap
Also the people who like posts like that :clap
You're overthinking it.
Spoiler: show
Ellie and Dina talk about all the possible groups that could have come after Joel at the start of Seattle Day 1. It doesn't really matter who or why Joel was killed, it was just a catalyst for this particular revenge plot.
Abby doesn't even know that Ellie is killing her friends until the end of Seattle Day 3, in the grand scheme of things, Ellie's revenge story doesn't mean that much to Abby until Seattle Day 3, she is preoccupied with the WLF and Seraphites plot.
TLoU 2 is a game about revenge and hate as Druckman said and Joel's death was the catalyst.
That would've been cool actually.you know what, scratch that. I was completely off base
Spoiler: showI thought for sure there was a QTE in the drowning part, but it seems like there wasn't, the only QTE is in the part where Ellie is trying to drive a knife into Abby.
Yes.That would've been cool actually.
Spoiler: showThere's a point where Abby is knocked up on the ground and you have to press square to initiate the drowning sequence. The whole fight was so sad that I didn't press square because I didn't want to hurt Abby. After a few seconds she stands up to fight again but you go back to that square prompt after giving her a punch. Anyway, Ellie doesn't kill her so that was satisfying to me. Some people wanted Abby to die and hate her in general but I don't get that after going through Abby's complete story.
One downside of writing a nuanced and deep story is that a lot of superficial gamers who are used to feel good stuff and the usual good guy/bad guy tropes don't get it, as is the case with some in this thread and elsewhere on the internet. And I'm not talking about the story interpretation which may differ, but the facts. So it's about comprehension as well but then, for someone who got triggered and had decided years ago that he will hate the game no matter what, nothing is going to work - which is why these biased and dishonest opinions are irrelevant. What I can respect are critical opinions that come without any preconceptions and prejudices and are based on the actual game experience (and not limited to two brain cell phrases).
Going to mention some of the story points that not only justified the story, but explained it very well and made it meaningful. Also some bittersweet moments that I didn't like as much but can see how they still drive the point of the story home.
Spoiler: show
- When Tommy is found in Seattle and he has a discussion with Jesse and Ellie in the theater, Ellie agrees with his plan to go back to Jackson now that some of the WLF guys involved in Joel's murder are killed. Abby is alive but at least they got some revenge. "It has to be okay", Ellie says. Ellie isn't a mindless psychopath who would just kill all of WLF. Her whole quest was fueled by PTSD after Joel's death that stayed with her till the very end. But she still called it quits and was willing to go back. That is exactly when Jesse is killed and Tommy and Dina are harmed by Abby, which triggers Ellie's trauma and the urge for revenge again.
- Abby didn't know she is restarting the cycle of revenge by killing Jesse, who was a nobody to her and he and Tommy stood in her way when she was there to get Ellie. From her perspective, it was kinda justified after having seen her friends dead in the aquarium. Again, she didn't know that they were killed in self-defense and even Ellie had a breakdown after that. Ellie had killed no one voluntarily at this point, except Nora who was dying anyway. She had made fun of Joel's death but more importantly, she was harmed for intel on Abby. Jordan, Owen, Mel...none of them were killed with the intent to kill even though all of them were involved in Joel's murder. Ellie's restraint was remarkable despite her trauma. The same might be said of Abby since she let go of Ellie twice, realizing that her beef was with Joel even though her friends died at Ellie's hands (even if in self-defense).
- The story had a good conclusion when Ellie was living with Dina at the farm and Abby was happy with Lev, hoping to find Fireflies. Tommy comes up with a lead to Abby when Ellie was trying hard to recover and let go. That was bad timing and bad trigger. Tommy should've known what Ellie has went through and why there needs to be an end to it. After all, he was the one to suggest they go back to Jackson from Seattle without killing Abby, and that was when things were pretty bad for everyone. But now Ellie and Dina were doing okay, had a baby, and Ellie was trying to get over her trauma. Abby wasn't bothering them anymore and had let Ellie and Dina go when she could've killed them. Sure, there's a cost of revenge - Jesse died in avenging Joel but Owen and Nora died too and they were close to Abby. Both Ellie and Abby were done after paying this price, but Tommy ko ungli karni thi (maybe because he had separated from Maria and ab kuch karne ko tha nhi especially considering his disability which made him no longer fit for patrols, hunting, etc.).
- I think Abby's story and character is great but it isn't appreciated as much as it deserves and that's mostly because of people stuck up in the prologue. She lost her dad, the man she loved, other friends, and she had been struggling for a normal meaningful life. The death of Joel for the fans is one thing but it's something quite different from Abby's perspective which needs to be understood even if one disagrees with the story execution. In fact, IMO, Abby's revenge justifies Ellie's complete story that can't be justified otherwise. By trying to kill Abby for the murder of her father figure, Ellie validates Abby killing Joel for the death of her father. Ellie is basically saying that yes, if someone kills your dad then revenge is justified. But paradoxically, she should then understand Abby's actions which she doesn't because by the same token, Ellie's revenge is justified as well. That means the only way out is breaking the cycle, by not avenging a murder even if you feel it is justified to do so because you can see its never ending harm and loss of life. Abby realizes this before Ellie when she lets them go in the theater. Ellie realizes it at the very end after loosing what was left in her life.
- This is where the Yara and Lev story is important. It gives a kind of meaning to Abby's life that lets her see the bigger picture, unlike Ellie. Abby hated Scars and couldn't understand why anyone would join them, as she says to Owen at one point. But she ends up finding meaning and some satisfaction by helping her 'enemies', even at the cost of going against her friends (WLF). This is partly influenced by the fact that Lev and Yara save her life. Here she sees that not everything is black and white, that these Scars are outcasts themselves. The line between 'us and them' has been blurred, which lets them see the bigger picture where they simply connect in their shared humanity and empathy beyond this or that group. This gives some sort of redemption to Abby as before this sequence, she sees her dad lying dead in the firefly hospital (in a flashback) and Lev and Yara are hanged and killed (in a dream), but after she had helped them her dad is alive and is smiling at her (in another flashback). This explains why she would be more willing to let go of revenge and not kill Dina and Ellie in the theater, especially when Lev calls to her and gives her a compassionate look as he has been a key part in her redemption.
- I initially felt that the Lev and Yara story is being dragged and is needless (finding the supplies to save Yara, going to the Scar island to save Lev). But as mentioned above, it gives meaning to Abby's character in a good way. Plus, Lev and Abby sequences have some of the best level design and gameplay moments. Yara dying on the island despite Abby doing so much to save her also projects the futility of a revenge quest in which people close to you can and will die meaningless and needless deaths. Perhaps this is why Abby stops before Lev is taken away from her as well.
- Unlike Tommy, Abby had simply no one left who'd take her back to the path of revenge and she had made peace with her life with Lev. Ellie was trying to do the same with Dina but then comes Tommy. This is the bittersweet part for me because the game from here on did not need to continue and would have been a good ending in itself, but it also makes a good point about how you can lose literally everything if you are consumed by trauma and revenge. The saddest bit was seeing Abby all starved and nearly dead when she was just looking for a better future and had nothing to do with revenge anymore. Likewise, Ellie trying to play guitar but being unable to do so while also being completely alone and abandoned. "If I ever were to lose you, I'd surely lose myself". Literally true. It sums up the whole story nicely after Joel's death. Perhaps another good bit of continuing the story after Tommy's lead is that Ellie seems to have gotten over her trauma in the end while drowning Abby. She can finally see the happy Joel. This is also an indication that the story, if it were to continue in Part 3, would not go in the revenge direction. The Fireflies said on the radio that they are in a round building near Catalina island. Idk if the menu screen shows this place or the place where Ellie had docked in her final quest.
Didn't you know, Ellie used to wall jump and customize her vehicles (lmao)lAlso, someone please point out which gameplay features were cut out from the original E3 2018 gameplay demo in this "simple" linear game.
That would've been pretty cool actually.Spoiler: showI thought for sure there was a QTE in the drowning part
You are claiming that you are some higher being with next level of understanding and rest of the people are beneath you. Frankly people like you and this attitude is the reason this game is getting this much flak.One downside of writing a nuanced and deep story is that a lot of superficial gamers who are used to feel good stuff and the usual good guy/bad guy tropes don't get it, as is the case with some in this thread and elsewhere on the internet. And I'm not talking about the story interpretation which may differ, but the facts. So it's about comprehension as well but then, for someone who got triggered and had decided years ago that he will hate the game no matter what, nothing is going to work - which is why these biased and dishonest opinions are irrelevant. What I can respect are critical opinions that come without any preconceptions and prejudices and are based on the actual game experience (and not limited to two brain cell phrases).
Going to mention some of the story points that not only justified the story, but explained it very well and made it meaningful. Also some bittersweet moments that I didn't like as much but can see how they still drive the point of the story home.
Spoiler: show
- When Tommy is found in Seattle and he has a discussion with Jesse and Ellie in the theater, Ellie agrees with his plan to go back to Jackson now that some of the WLF guys involved in Joel's murder are killed. Abby is alive but at least they got some revenge. "It has to be okay", Ellie says. Ellie isn't a mindless psychopath who would just kill all of WLF. Her whole quest was fueled by PTSD after Joel's death that stayed with her till the very end. But she still called it quits and was willing to go back. That is exactly when Jesse is killed and Tommy and Dina are harmed by Abby, which triggers Ellie's trauma and the urge for revenge again.
- Abby didn't know she is restarting the cycle of revenge by killing Jesse, who was a nobody to her and he and Tommy stood in her way when she was there to get Ellie. From her perspective, it was kinda justified after having seen her friends dead in the aquarium. Again, she didn't know that they were killed in self-defense and even Ellie had a breakdown after that. Ellie had killed no one voluntarily at this point, except Nora who was dying anyway. She had made fun of Joel's death but more importantly, she was harmed for intel on Abby. Jordan, Owen, Mel...none of them were killed with the intent to kill even though all of them were involved in Joel's murder. Ellie's restraint was remarkable despite her trauma. The same might be said of Abby since she let go of Ellie twice, realizing that her beef was with Joel even though her friends died at Ellie's hands (even if in self-defense).
- The story had a good conclusion when Ellie was living with Dina at the farm and Abby was happy with Lev, hoping to find Fireflies. Tommy comes up with a lead to Abby when Ellie was trying hard to recover and let go. That was bad timing and bad trigger. Tommy should've known what Ellie has went through and why there needs to be an end to it. After all, he was the one to suggest they go back to Jackson from Seattle without killing Abby, and that was when things were pretty bad for everyone. But now Ellie and Dina were doing okay, had a baby, and Ellie was trying to get over her trauma. Abby wasn't bothering them anymore and had let Ellie and Dina go when she could've killed them. Sure, there's a cost of revenge - Jesse died in avenging Joel but Owen and Nora died too and they were close to Abby. Both Ellie and Abby were done after paying this price, but Tommy ko ungli karni thi (maybe because he had separated from Maria and ab kuch karne ko tha nhi especially considering his disability which made him no longer fit for patrols, hunting, etc.).
- I think Abby's story and character is great but it isn't appreciated as much as it deserves and that's mostly because of people stuck up in the prologue. She lost her dad, the man she loved, other friends, and she had been struggling for a normal meaningful life. The death of Joel for the fans is one thing but it's something quite different from Abby's perspective which needs to be understood even if one disagrees with the story execution. In fact, IMO, Abby's revenge justifies Ellie's complete story that can't be justified otherwise. By trying to kill Abby for the murder of her father figure, Ellie validates Abby killing Joel for the death of her father. Ellie is basically saying that yes, if someone kills your dad then revenge is justified. But paradoxically, she should then understand Abby's actions which she doesn't because by the same token, Ellie's revenge is justified as well. That means the only way out is breaking the cycle, by not avenging a murder even if you feel it is justified to do so because you can see its never ending harm and loss of life. Abby realizes this before Ellie when she lets them go in the theater. Ellie realizes it at the very end after loosing what was left in her life.
- This is where the Yara and Lev story is important. It gives a kind of meaning to Abby's life that lets her see the bigger picture, unlike Ellie. Abby hated Scars and couldn't understand why anyone would join them, as she says to Owen at one point. But she ends up finding meaning and some satisfaction by helping her 'enemies', even at the cost of going against her friends (WLF). This is partly influenced by the fact that Lev and Yara save her life. Here she sees that not everything is black and white, that these Scars are outcasts themselves. The line between 'us and them' has been blurred, which lets them see the bigger picture where they simply connect in their shared humanity and empathy beyond this or that group. This gives some sort of redemption to Abby as before this sequence, she sees her dad lying dead in the firefly hospital (in a flashback) and Lev and Yara are hanged and killed (in a dream), but after she had helped them her dad is alive and is smiling at her (in another flashback). This explains why she would be more willing to let go of revenge and not kill Dina and Ellie in the theater, especially when Lev calls to her and gives her a compassionate look as he has been a key part in her redemption.
- I initially felt that the Lev and Yara story is being dragged and is needless (finding the supplies to save Yara, going to the Scar island to save Lev). But as mentioned above, it gives meaning to Abby's character in a good way. Plus, Lev and Abby sequences have some of the best level design and gameplay moments. Yara dying on the island despite Abby doing so much to save her also projects the futility of a revenge quest in which people close to you can and will die meaningless and needless deaths. Perhaps this is why Abby stops before Lev is taken away from her as well.
- Unlike Tommy, Abby had simply no one left who'd take her back to the path of revenge and she had made peace with her life with Lev. Ellie was trying to do the same with Dina but then comes Tommy. This is the bittersweet part for me because the game from here on did not need to continue and would have been a good ending in itself, but it also makes a good point about how you can lose literally everything if you are consumed by trauma and revenge. The saddest bit was seeing Abby all starved and nearly dead when she was just looking for a better future and had nothing to do with revenge anymore. Likewise, Ellie trying to play guitar but being unable to do so while also being completely alone and abandoned. "If I ever were to lose you, I'd surely lose myself". Literally true. It sums up the whole story nicely after Joel's death. Perhaps another good bit of continuing the story after Tommy's lead is that Ellie seems to have gotten over her trauma in the end while drowning Abby. She can finally see the happy Joel. This is also an indication that the story, if it were to continue in Part 3, would not go in the revenge direction. The Fireflies said on the radio that they are in a round building near Catalina island. Idk if the menu screen shows this place or the place where Ellie had docked in her final quest.
Franny that's not what Solitary said at all, every time you post in this thread you show us a bit more how little you understand (lmao).
Spoiler: showHe's talking about Abby helping Lev and Yara (who are scars) in general despite hating their kind inherently because that's whats she has been taught by the WLF.
She wasn't helping for 'some unknown reason', she went back to check on them because she felt guilty for leaving them alone in the first place cause they saved her and she just left them in an abandoned office, hence she has the nightmare where she sees them gutted and hanging.
And the game made it pretty obvious Abby and her crew are in Jackson for the specific purpose of hunting Joel, it wouldn't be much of a revenge journey if they just met them, escaped some infected and went back.
If this is the half-baked uninformed level of 'flak' the game is receiving, I think we're all gonna be A-OK (lmao).
The unknown reason you speak of is empathy. The same empathy that Joel felt for Ellie in the first game.Spoiler: showYou are claiming that Abby helped Scars? Lol she was protecting Lev from Scars. Abby infact never sided with anyone. She was helping Yara and Lev for some unknown reason.
Spoiler: showSolitary the literary genius just claimed that Abby saw the other side of Scars. Please explain to me where.
The unknown reason you speak of is empathy. The same empathy that Joel felt for Ellie in the first game.
Lol yes, it's nice to be able to comprehend and analyse well and not just throw around phrases like 'murder porn' and 'teenage romcom zombie drama' which obviously reflects the epitome of human intellect and thoughtful criticism, right?You are claiming that you are some higher being with next level of understanding and rest of the people are beneath you. Frankly people like you and this attitude is the reason this game is getting this much flak.
Spoiler: showYou are claiming that Abby helped Scars? Lol she was protecting Lev from Scars. Abby infact never sided with anyone. She was helping Yara and Lev for some unknown reason. Game never explained her motivations. Maybe both the sisters saved Abby from the Scars. But then again she golfed the shit out of Joel for saving her too.
Tommy ko ungli thee to get revenge for his brother, but when Abby does it, its is fine? What kind of logic is this.
Bhao baaki San chori first provide a link or source for your sales claim please.Spoiler: showSolitary the literary genius just claimed that Abby saw the other side of Scars. Please explain to me where. Infact when Abby first saw Yara and Lev things were pretty bad. I have no clue where Abby got a soft spot for Scars. Please read his 500 word gibberish and ranting.
I am really feeling bad for you. The unhealthy obsession with the game is chewing you from the inside. The sales of this game are dropped faster than Uncharted 4. Please try another game. I know this game has nothing to show off, just a stupid story to run circles around.
Regarding your final spoiler.
Spoiler: showYes, that is indeed the Fireflies building on Catalina Island. Druckmann confirmed in the spoiler cast. He did not out right say that Abby made it to the fireflies but you can put 2 and 2 together. It's the same boat.
Also as others have pointed, Ellie is wearing Dina's bracelet in the final visit to the farm, she does not have it on her in Santa Barbara, meaning the farm segment was probably some time after everything was done and she may or may not have made it back up with Dina.
LMAO ye kya hai? Shakespearean poetry perhaps. And check the entitlement. Banda spoon feed bhi karay poori story aur baatain bhi sunay. Aap ka homework hai ye, mera nahi. But I'm going to do it one last time.Spoiler: showSolitary the literary genius just claimed that Abby saw the other side of Scars. Please explain to me where. Infact when Abby first saw Yara and Lev things were pretty bad. I have no clue where Abby got a soft spot for Scars. Please read his 500 word gibberish and ranting.
I am really feeling bad for you. The unhealthy obsession with the game is chewing you from the inside. The sales of this game are dropped faster than Uncharted 4. Please try another game. I know this game has nothing to show off, just a stupid story to run circles around.
I also got confused about this after reading a Reddit post lolI just got reminded of something guys!
Spoiler: showWhen you free the prisoners in the end and ask them about Abby, two of them say quite confidently that she was bit and is left for dead at the pillars. They even say that she might have turned by now. Why was this emphasized but turned out to be false? Is Abby immune like Ellie? Is this why she is going to the fireflies? She had a reason to not do that earlier because of WLF stuff and revenge but now that everyone's dead and she found the fireflies, is this just her looking for another group to join? Why would she do that and risk death again by working for them instead of just living peacefully with Lev? Why would the prisoners lie about her being infected? I think she's immune.
did you know you can see @NaNoW credited in the game too ?faraany3k said:So while Playing Control, I found a journal which said that a bathroom is missing in Islamabad Beurue of Control. With Alan Wake and Control seems to be connected worlds. Even our city is in the universe as well. No wonder those Trail 5 and Trail 6 are haunted.
I tried playing Apex Legends once. Couldn't find a gun for 5 minutes straight. If I found a gun, I couldn't find the right ammo for it. Got killed fighting with my fists. Uninstalled it the next day.faraany3k said:What is peoples obsession with Battle Royale genre. 6 minutes to find a match, 3 minutes to setup a match, 2 minutes to land, 10 minutes for scavanging maybe 2 3 gunfigts and its over. Multiplayer landscape is looking absolute dogshit.
After I watched it, I never felt like i watched a show. It was a friggin journey. I got way too attached to Thorfinn and seeing him grow up and find himself and get rid of all the negativity inside of him was just pure bliss.iampasha said:I usually stay away from animes. Vinland saga changed the way i look at my life, and my experiences within. I recommend every breathing human being to watch this animated masterpiece at least once fromstart to finish.
I usually stay away from animes. Vinland saga changed the way i look at my life, and my experiences within. I recommend every breathing human being to watch this animated masterpiece at least once fromstart to finish.EternalBlizzard said:Vinland Saga > Berserk