MULTI Do you like mini-maps?

[MegamanEXE]

So, I was just reading this thread by Eternal Blizzard and that reminded of an interesting point (which I wrote there as well) but I'm making a separate thread here for discussion. It's about time we made a thread about not bashing platforms or exclusives and discuss GAMES, which is this forum is all about (supposedly?)

Minimaps. You see, games are getting too easy because of BLOODY MINIMAPS. Look, I don't like to get lost as much as the next guy, but FINDING stuff is fun. I remember playing Kingdoms of Amalur. It's an absolutely beautiful game, but one major con about that was I actually played the minimap more than the game.

The whole game, I was just staring at the minimap. I didn't know what town I was in, or how it was special. I was just...there. The towns were definitely beautiful but what's the point then?

So how do you think navigation should be done without minimaps? One of the best examples I can see of this being done right is in BATMAN: ARKHAM ORIGINS/CITY. If you remember how we're supposed to find Mr.Freeze in Arkham City, we have a tracker with a number showing the distance between the destination and Batman. Now we don't know WHICH direction is he supposed to be in, so we walk around trying to get the number down and find the building...without a map.

Same goes for finding Bane (in Arkham Origins), which was more or less the same thing. To go to mission marks/checkpoints, there is a Bat signal in the sky showing where you have to go, so while we go there, we're looking at Batman and the city and the other stuff. A lot of games are entirely dependent on mini-maps and divert attention away from all the awesome details of the environment, thus reducing immersion and make games TOO linear.

So, what do you guys think? Are minimaps OK? How should they be done to provide immersion?

 

[Arkonov]

Mini-maps are necessary, especially in an open-world game.

I actually prefer having mini-maps rather than opening up the "big" map over and over again, as was the norm in olden days of gaming.

Also, do you dislike minimaps or just maps? :s

 

[saad07]

5-6 years back, gaming was limited. The 'world' in which the game took place was small and hence you could easily memorize it after a few hours in the game. But, these days the gaming worlds are so huge that minimap is a necessity. Imagine exploring skyrim or AC3 without minimaps. It would be so confusing.

One thing I don't like is 'markers' which show you the exact location you're supposed to go to. That discourages exploration since you're just focusing on that marker. Telling us the general area or explaining through the help of directions like go east and such will be fun. A few games do implement this feature.

The best example I can think of a game which thrives without a minimap is dark souls. But that's pretty much what the souls series is all about.

 

[MegamanEXE]

Big maps HAVE to be there, whether we like it or not. What we could have is a mini-map which has low details, not paths. Like, just a pointer to show that there is a city here, or you are in this city (marked by a dot), and nothing else. No roads, no pointer showing where your 'objective' is waiting. You get help to FIND the city, but then you should be on your own. That'd be great.

 

[Gizmo]

^^It's an itneresting point. SKYRIM didn't have a mini map visible on the screen and I never had any problems playing that game, But In other cases mini maps can be really helpful. It'd be good is devs would include options about how much details we want to see in mini maps, like a filter and I'm pretty sure alot of games do actually have those options, Assassin's Creed games do I think.

 

[TheRaja]

mini map thing is realistic like gps thing. Markers would change that real feeling.
one thing that i imagine is why dont developers give the characters like Assasin Creed Hero or others the moves like tekken. its often a button for hit and a counter or block. need some more special attack moves some power attacks and the character should get injured or tired to get into another phase of fight.

 

[Arkonov]

Big maps don't necessarily have to be there, unless it's an open-world game, even then take Dark Souls for example, it didn't have any map, and you understand the games layout fairly well while playing it.

 

[Xerolt9]

Minimaps are necessary in some games, tbh. However, youre right: i find myself staring at the minimap most of the time. I guess if developers integrated a better HUD in games, like an arrow pointing towards your objective but not occupying too much space on screen. That would eliminate the need of a minimap in most situations

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[TrueCoolGuy]

Dark Souls isn't technically a good candidate for a game that does well without a map. It's a pretty linear game even if it is open world, there aren't really many different paths to take to get to one point, there are a couple but that's about it. The areas are varied enough to make you know that you're progressing and no area is too big that you have to walk a mile and then get worried if you're going the right way. A map or mini-map in a Souls game would be unnecessary, it might even hinder the game.

Usually when games are given maps (and mini-maps), developers focus on the maps to help the players navigate, not the actual game environments. A good example is Dragon's Dogma. Your main source of navigation is your map 'cause the actual game area is so huge you can't see if one path actually leads to where you want to go. I played DD fairly enough and the map was a huge hindrance. Getting to it required pressing Start then pressing Confirm when you're on the Map tab and the map would always load significantly slowly. Maps need to be instantaneous, especially if you're in a game where you need to bring it up so much. And the maps actually need to be well designed too, DD had absolutely crap map designs and the clunky map controls did not help it one bit. Almost every area in the game is like a maze, you need the map to see where the heck you're going. One area in particular was so confusing, it made me want to punch a kitten. A cave with multiple levels of areas (upper and lower) which were so loosely connected you'd think the game devs wanted you to cheat to get to certain areas. Every passage, tunnel or area in the cave resembled another passage, tunnel or area in the cave so you had to keep double checking your map to make sure you weren't insane but the map is utter ass and confuses you even more.

Red Dead Redemption had a good map I think. I never had to rely on it much since areas weren't aesthetically repetitive and when I had to rely on it, it gave me enough detail to understand everything in one look. I almost never had to look at the map again and re-check my initial course. There was one time where the map got annoying, it was in the caverns area, so again multiple levels of an area screws the hell out of maps.

 

[Gizmo]

^^I agree about DD's maps. I once went through in a direction for over an hour to get to an objective just to have the maps reveal that I had to take left turn where the map forked into the two major paths a good ways back. It was extremely frustrating.

 

[Necrokiller]

Maps and direction pointers during gameplay ruin immersion and is a disservice to the detailed game worlds.

Keep them as an option I say, for when people just wana get over with the game rather than finding their own way around it.

 

[Gizmo]

^^I've never really understood the obsession with immersion. If you ask me, removing a pointer from the screen or not letting me use a mini map won't make me more engrossed in the story or the world I'm in. I've tried turning huds off in games that allow it and it's never made a difference to me.

 

[Necrokiller]

^^I've never really understood the obsession with immersion. If you ask me, removing a pointer from the screen or not letting me use a mini map won't make me more engrossed in the story or the world I'm in. I've tried turning huds off in games that allow it and it's never made a difference to me.

Not the story, but the world, yes. You navigate the world as if you're there. It makes a huge difference man, atleast to me.

Usually when you have objective markers you just rush towards it. Its a distraction and a constant reminder that you need to be heading in "that" direction. Its annoying.

 

[faraany3k]

Valve removed minimas from TF2 altogether. There maps are pretty crazy and complex compared to modern shooters.

They were of the view that leaning the map is part of the fun, and minimap kills half the experience of exploration.

 

[GloriousChicken]

I cant live without mini maps..... without them im just blind.

 

[MegamanEXE]

See, if I now ask you to describe the towns you've been to, you won't do it very well. Because you've been directed there, you didn't find it yourself. Games allow us to live in worlds we can DREAM of. How can you immerse yourself in this kind of fantasy if the game simply tells you where to go?

 

[Chandoo]

If we strictly take "open world sandbox" games into account, I much prefer when the game highlights your routes on the world itself (eg Saints Row 3/4 and Sleeping Dogs most prominently). I appreciate GTA's approach to immersion by not plastering giant neon turn signs in the world, but at some point the driving in the game constantly boils down to your eyes being fixated on the lower left corner at the mini map, you not only not see the traffic coming, you also miss out on a lot of the world this way too.

 

[Dorito]

I'm an immersion freak at times, but I still like minimaps. Markers are annoying. Much more fun to find stuff yourself imo

 

[Wolfy]

^^It's an itneresting point. SKYRIM didn't have a mini map visible on the screen and I never had any problems playing that game, But In other cases mini maps can be really helpful. It'd be good is devs would include options about how much details we want to see in mini maps, like a filter and I'm pretty sure alot of games do actually have those options, Assassin's Creed games do I think.

world of warcraft minimap has that option that you are refering too, it has a huge filter that can show number of vendors on choice, and number of things you can disable based on your convinience..

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^^It's an itneresting point. SKYRIM didn't have a mini map visible on the screen and I never had any problems playing that game, But In other cases mini maps can be really helpful. It'd be good is devs would include options about how much details we want to see in mini maps, like a filter and I'm pretty sure alot of games do actually have those options, Assassin's Creed games do I think.

world of warcraft minimap has that option that you are refering too, it has a huge filter that can show number of vendors on choice, and number of things you can disable based on your convinience..

 

[EternalBlizzard]

What necrokiller said... i think it'd be good to just have a compass and the game tells you which direction you have to go through npcs... without putting any objective marker on the screen...
Personally i wouldn't like to go in the wrong direction too often... and having a compass solves that for me.... I think COD 2 had that kind of thing...

And after we have discovered any location it is marked on the world map/minimap (keeping it as an option)... so its easy if u want to find it again quickly....